Transformers: Steel Reign

[frigidmagi]

We don't have any tanks! We have a Infantry fighting vehicle and... Damn I promised Fisher.

[General Havoc]

Um.... B4....

I don't expect people to restrict themselves to Hornet's level of power, and I don't expect him to be the only flier or fighter around, but your character strikes me as being Hornet with a different personality, a full-sized chasis, and all his numbers multiplied by 3. I'm serious. You have a super-high performance fighter jet with superb speed, excellent handling, powerful weapons, but a weakness of very light armor. The only difference is that your character has MORE speed, MORE maneuverability, MORE armor (not that that's hard), MORE firepower, etc... than Hornet. He even has the same rough mission profile.

This character is a high-powered replacement for Hornet. I don't object to another plane. I don't even object to another fighter jet. I object to a character that is Hornet's hyper-powered twin with a more edgy personality. With this character in the players' group, there is simply nothing that Hornet can do at all, save for what your character refuses to be bothered with. All the various jobs that are cooked up to give Hornet something to do, the recon and the light air support and whatnot, every single thing Hornet can do, this character can do better. I don't need him to be less powerful than Hornet. I WOULD however appreciate it if your character did not feel the need to be better than mine at every single aspect of existence, including those things that are Hornet's 'specialty" as it were (recon and so on).

We already have three Autobot fighters. Both of the others are significantly more powerful than Hornet. Do we REALLY need a third fighter that is, by himself, better than Hornet at every single thing? Deathstrike isn't as maneuverable as Hornet is. Skyshadow is slower and more long-range based (as best I can tell). Their mere existence does not mean that Hornet is now no longer necessary for ANYTHING. Slipstream's does, as he is a clone of Hornet with full-sized TF power levels.

[frigidmagi]

I hadn't thought of it but Havoc raises good points.

[LadyTevar]

Rebuttal from B4:

TeamhairTahal: No.. just asking why have Hornet when Slipstream can do everythign he does better
BraidedShinigami: Slipstream isn't designed as a scout and couldn't be a scout now if he tried...
BraidedShinigami: because let's face it, it's hard as hell to be a scout when you're screaming Yahoo! while going Mach 4 through the air doing barrel rolls
TeamhairTahal: Post that in the thread LOL!
TeamhairTahal: rotfl

[Charon]

ask the guys turning into tanks and trains and a artillery cannon...

Not.

My.

Fault.

[B4UTRUST]

Actually when designing Slipstream I had no intent to mimic Hornet's character. Thought never crossed my mind, actually. Hornet's roll is what exactly? He does recon. Check. He's a low-profile wild card capable of seriously messing with plans if used right. Check. He's the quiet little scout-bot. Check. Light air support. Check.

Slipstream couldn't scout anymore if his spark depended on it. Because let's face it, it's pretty hard to be good at scouting covertly when you're screaming "Yaaahoooo!!!" across a comm channe over the sound of blaring Techno musicl at Mach 4 doing barrel rolls.

Again - there is a complete negative in the low-profile fighter category as well. See the above reasoning. The guy couldn't be low profile if he tried. Suicidal, high-risk, high speed manuvers are not low profile. This guy's likely to be the biggest target on the block that everyone aims for (including Deathstrike with this guy's attitude).

Slipstream is not targeted for a 'support' roll. His current configuration has him geared towards being a front line fighter. Hornet's the one that takes the targets of oppertunity and hits them when they never expect it. Slipstream is the one going at full tilt straight into the enemy formation.

There are similarities, yes, I will admit it. Slipstream, however, is not designed to replace Hornet, outdate Hornet, or kick sand in Hornet's face, make fun of him and send him packing. It's like saying Prime and Magnus are clones because they're both big semi's in leadership positions. Or Rodimus and Optimus are the same because they're both Primes.

[General Havoc]

The comparison here is not between Prime and Magnus, or Rodimus and Optimus. Both Rodimus and Optimus are perfectly effective bots at their own thing, even if their own thing is very similar. This is not a matter of Hornet and Slipstream doing the same things. This is a matter of Slipstream doing everything Hornet is capable of doing better than he can.

A frontline fighter is one thing. You want one, go ahead. But your frontline fighter is not merely better armed and armored than Hornet is, he is also more manuverable, he is also faster, he is also equipped with a V/TOL system. His much greater speed, combined with stronger armor (light by comparison to a normal TF is still very heavy by comparison to Hornet) makes him FAR better suited to the performing of recon missions than Hornet ever will be, if only because he can survive a hit or two without vaporization. Faster by far than Hornet is, and more manuverable, he is MUCH better suited to taking out-of-nowhere potshots than Hornet is, or to slashing through enemy formations, or literally anything else he wishes to engage in in air combat. The only reason he is "not as effective at recon" as Hornet is because he shouts a lot. Same for everything else. Hornet has no special stealth characteristics or radar diffusers that make him good at what he does, he simply is better at doing that than he is at everything else. Slipstream is better than he is at everything. The fact that he acts brashly and boldly merely means that Slipstream is better at recon than Hornet is but does not deign to act like it. There's nothing stopping him from undertaking that role save that he prefers not to.

I know Hornet's underpowered, that's part of the point, and that thus any given character's going to be more powerful than him by yards. I don't object to that. Slipstream is not overpowered. What I object to is how perfectly he mirrors Hornet's strengths and weaknesses, but in an exagerated form. Like Hornet, he is a high-performance fighter jet with potent weaponry but little armored protection. Like Hornet he flies a bit crazily, and has to rely on his speed and manuverability to evade damage. Like Hornet, he is well-suited for solo-recon tasks that slower jets can't undertake. Like Hornet, he has a personality that doesn't well match that. There is no aspect of flight or existance or anything else wherein Hornet is not TOTALLY upstaged by this character, which wouldn't be such a big deal, save that they resemble one another so closely.

This isn't Optimus Prime and Roddimus Prime. This is Optimus Prime and Orion Pax. Optimus Prime is everything Orion Pax could ever possibly be and more. There is no aspect in which Orion Pax is even CLOSE to the power or effectiveness of Optimus Prime, and with Optimus around, why in the hell would you need Orion?

He does everything Hornet can do, only he does it better. The fact that he doesn't like doing some of it doesn't make him any less effective at it.

[B4UTRUST]

I swear to Primus I'm going to make a C-130 Autobot to Frodo shit from point A to point B. But then I'd probably be acused of copying Overload's role of Frodoing shit...

Of course the bitch of this is that if I retool this character for true frontline combat then I'll be accused of making him too powerful.

[Dark Silver]

The following things are changed to Slipstream.

His armor goes up slightly, from below average, to average for a TF of his size. Like in his original form, he has no sense of stealth what so ever. He is in no way shape or form meant to be a Scout, the second he enters radar range, he's on. He has no stealth capabilities in either mode.

That should assure he remains out of any scouting steps, and thus he's not a threat in the slightest to Hornet or his role in the group. Simply put, your a fucking retard if you put Slipstream to a scouting position unless the object is to give away your positions.

[B4UTRUST]

Name: Slipstream
"High Speed, Low Drag"
Alligience Autobot
Function: High manuverability, air supremacy fighter

Profile/history:
Slipstream was an early model aerial combat bot from the beginning days of the Cybertronian War. He was engaged in a skirmish above the Cybertronian city-state of Kalis. The battle was costly on both sides as Megatron's forces in the area fought savagely to keep the engine reactors entirely in Decepticon hands. Megatron's plan to use Cybertron as a cosmic dreadnaught had progressed far enough for the massive engines to be rebuilt. Shortly after this event, Megatron was stranded on the terran homeworld, Earth.

The battle was considered a loss on either side of the war as Kalis was nearly destroyed as a result. The reactors sat inactive for many many eons prior to an Autobot scientist by the name of Flame uncovering them. Leading a salvage team, Flame began to uncover the reactors, seeking to utilize their systems as a great energy source for the Autobots. Such a claim would enable the Autobots to engage in larger operations against the Decepticons.

During the excavation the Autobot team uncovered several Cybertronians trapped and buried in the rubble. Surprisingly several were still 'alive,' buried in the rubble and greatly damaged, locked in deep stasis locks. Most did not survive the transport back to Iacon for repairs. Slipstream nearly died as well.

Making it back to Iacon he underwent extensive repairs. The repairs were mostly unsuccessful as the damage to his systems was so severe his spark chamber kept losing containment. It was decided the only way to ensure his survival was a complete rebuild. His spark chamber was carefully removed and transplanted into a new frame.

Upon his reactivation he resumed his duty with the Autobots. Currently he is being reassigned to Autobot command on Earth.

Slipstream is brash, cocky, and self-sure. He's reckless and wild, prone to being completely spontanious and seldom following any sort of preset plan or agenda. This same attitude has seemingly kept him alive for quite a long time through many battles as his luck tends to run oddly.

Weaknesses: Almost completely incapable of utilizing proper tactics or strategy - Slipstream's method of aerial combat can only be rightly described as 'flying by the seat of your pants.' High speed acrobatic manuvers, seemingly flamboyant and pointless demonstrations of ability, and actions that must be no less then absolutely suicidal. Where others would be going out of control, he seems capable of almost 'zenning' into the battle, relying on instinct and feel rather then instruments and indications. One would call this foolish, stupid, daring the Matrix to take his spark early, but for him it is the only way. This is quite literal, as his battle records show that any time he's forced into a formation or tactical strategy by a superior his preformance drops dramatically and he always ends up severely injured because of it.

Limited weapons use - Nearly of his weaponry is restricted to his alt form only, leaving him under armed in robot to robot conflicts

Reduced physical strength - Most bots are strong, some are stronger then average for their size. For Slipstream's size he's weaker then normal. Which isn't to say he's a complete weakling, just that he's incapable of going toe to toe arm wrestling someone his size and probably a size or two under him.

Complete lack of stealth - His disregard for formations and discipline, brash, loud, in your face attitude and his flying methodolgy make him completely incapable of stealth operations that require finesse or quiet. That, coupled with the loud roar of his oversized jets screaming at high speed means that most of the time the enemy would probably hear him coming long before seeing him.

Disregard for internal communications during battle - The constant chatter of comms during battle kills his zen in his opinion. He doesn't turn it completely off, but tends to tune most of it out, prefering to keep the battle tempo with selections from his library of human techno music. Where did he get techno music you ask? He overheard some humans listening something called an 'mp3 player' while off duty. He found the sounds issuing from the tiny device pleasing to his aural sensors. Utilizing base resources briefly, if for a somewhat illegitmate purpose, he 'aquired' a selection of techno music off the human's internet. Yes, this means he's a music pirate. No, the RIAA has yet to try to press charges. ..Yet..

Weapons: His primary weapon is a pulse laser cannon capable of a high rate of low yield fire. The cannon is mounted beneath his nose in his alt form.

A-A laser emitters - Two semi-fixed laser emitters are mounted in the wings, near the base of the wing where it connects to the main body. These lasers can be fired only in his alt form and can only be aimed along the front arc with a max angle of about 45 degrees in any direction from the nose.

Two mini-missile launcher bays are concealed in the aft part of the alt form. Each of the missile clusters contains 24 of the mini-missiles which are high-manuverability medium range missiles. The missiles are unusable except in alt form.

Alt Form: Sleek futuristic jet aircraft. The jet is equiped 2 two-dimensional independent convergent/divergent exhaust for greater manuverability and V/STOL capability. Small vernier thrusters are mounted on the wingtips, nose, vertical stabilitizer and cannards for added preformance. Capable of achieving speeds of approaching mach 4 at less then 30,000meters above sea level. Above that level his speed can increase to nearly mach 5. Cruising speed is around mach 1.8

[General Havoc]

Ah, now this looks much more... well I'm not sure what it looks like (I still can't believe that first picture is CGI), but I have no objections to this sort of thing at all. Sorry for making such a big deal of the original version. This looks fine to me.

[Charon]

DarkSteele: and it's a buncha for all intents and purposes..."no names" charging two autobots who have reached rank enough to obtain command ranking of a potentially important Autobot base.
IRWriter86: Damnit Shellshock isn't a no-name. He and Overload have probably just been passed over for promotions a couple... dozen... times.
IRWriter86: Because they have a tendency to do stupid, suicidal, and rule breaking things.
DarkSteele: like I said...for all intents and purposes...most of your team are no names...

[B4UTRUST]

You see, it was all an elaborate political plan to remove Prime from power by showing how he's incapable of command. Thus giving Rodimus the matrix, making him the true Prime and leader. Roddy was the traitor! It was all a setup from the beginning. Show the bungling no-name autobots as incompatent under Prime's command and then use it against him. It all seems to clear now...

[LadyTevar]

NIt: Oh dear... only place to take him is outside.
Tev: Nit? Who did you just send outside?
Nit: Oh Dear.... The Minicons!
Tev: I AM NOT A MINICON!
Nit: We can try Powerlinking!

[Cynical Cat]

MINICON! It's so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. Get in my Pokeball!

[SirNitram]

MINICON! It's so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. Get in my Pokeball!

My wife, my Minicon.

[LadyTevar]

MINICON! It's so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. Get in my Pokeball!

My wife, my Minicon.

Tev: ........... so where do you slot me?
Nit: I'm not going there. There may be children reading the board.

[LadyTevar]

TeamhairTahal: You've missed the Fight again
TeamhairTahal: Tag to you, Shellshock
IRWriter86: ...
IRWriter86: *just had an idea*
TeamhairTahal: uhoh.
IRWriter86: *doesn't see any reason that he can't fire energon grenades as long as their big enough...*
IRWriter86: *they're
TeamhairTahal: Nit: oh dear
IRWriter86: :-D
TeamhairTahal: Uumm.... you do know the ones she makes are roughly the size of a basketball... maybe a beach ball?
IRWriter86: How many millimeters across is a basketball?
TeamhairTahal: How the hell should I know LOL!
IRWriter86: Because I've got 356 mm to work with.
TeamhairTahal: DarekSilver001: ....
DarekSilver001: no
DarekSilver001: just..no
DarekSilver001: those things should become unstable when their away from Crimson
DarekSilver001: they shouldn't become auxillary atillery
IRWriter86: Awww...
TeamhairTahal: DarekSilver001: again
DarekSilver001: no
DarekSilver001: he's not using your gernades as artillery

[Charon]

IRWriter86: What if we're REALLY careful?
DarkSteele: no
DarkSteele: fuck no
DarkSteele: hell no
DarkSteele: I'll fucking make Unicron stomp on you
IRWriter86: You never let me have any fun...
DarkSteele: fucking right I don't
IRWriter86: How about it only has a very limited range?
DarkSteele: ..........
DarkSteele: That's it
DarkSteele: surprise Unicron
DarkSteele: your fucking scrap
IRWriter86: Aww...
IRWriter86: Ok no grenades...

[B4UTRUST]

Yay! My dark lord cometh! The hour of our asscension into the perfection that is Chaos Incarnate is at hand! Blessed by those who revel in the anarchy to come! I mean, what? No, no I'm not spouting heretical and evil propaganda slogans...Uniwho? Never heard of the guy...

[SirNitram]

Yay! My dark lord cometh! The hour of our asscension into the perfection that is Chaos Incarnate is at hand! Blessed by those who revel in the anarchy to come! I mean, what? No, no I'm not spouting heretical and evil propaganda slogans...Uniwho? Never heard of the guy...

Good. I'd hate to have to affix you as part of the blackmail against the Chaos-Bringer for the Poke-Cons.

[B4UTRUST]

Poke-cons? Do you have to slag them all?

[General Havoc]

There are no words for the abject horror I feel

[Dark Silver]

you people delight in making the GM want to make the planet go up in a very loud, wonderous kaboom, don't you?

[General Havoc]

Not only the GM....