Young Justice

[rhoenix]

Feh. This show does sound interesting, but I haven't yet seen it on Netflix.

[Batman]

The 'no aging' think is probably something they felt they needed to keep because in the comics, Conner's age was artificially 'locked' at 16 (I don't remember the exact terminology used but it probably made no actual sense anyway). Why they came up with the 'internal aging' garbage I have no clue, especially as frigid says, it makes no sense-either the guy's aging or he isn't. YJ is different enough from mainline DC that them simply ditching the no aging issue altogether shouldn't have been a problem.
And the Queen Bee issue, should it actually have happened, is absolutely a DC Comics morality thing. We don't kill. At all. Ever. Despite the fact that if we did the world would be incredibly better off. All I have to deal with is ordinary street crime (because my ego still won't let me do the smart thing and just pay Wally a hundred grand or so once a week to take the five or so minutes it would take him to arrest every criminal in Gotham), Clark and Diana would be dealing with natural disasters most of the time while us small-time superheroes deal with small-time crime, and the Lanterns would probably spend most of their time off-world.
What actually happens is Clark needing therapy for killing three Kryptonians that not only already murdered billions but vow to do it again if they ever get their powers back, Dick damn near having a nervous breakdown after accidentally killing the Joker, and when I finally decide I've had it and try to do the clown in, Jim Gordon of all people shoots at me to get me to stop. Nevermind all the innocents that died over the years, the Joker murdered his wife and crippled his daughter and he still doesn't want me to kill the guy. Yes, we in the DC Universe are that anal about the 'no killing' rule.

[frigidmagi]

I get the no killing for various street criminals, after all there is a justice system, there are courts and prisons and what have you and sometimes in Gotham they even work. Besides murdering a guy for committing a mugging is overboard. I want to make that clear, I am not and will never advocate punisher style mania, where the hero racks up a body count comparable only to various world war II bomber crews or various war criminals.

Hell I get no killing for alot of super villians. Captain Cold? He's mostly just a bank robber. Why kill him? Or Blockbuster? He's as much a victum as anything else. He needs medical treatment for the fact that he pumped himself full of an untested chemical and turned himself into a subhuman monster. Then he gets to stand trail for what he did to the Genoms. He is bluntly a slaver. He needs to be punished for that.

But there are people for which there is damn little else you can do. Joker for example, the system might as well be a revolving door. I mean the system was given plenty of chances (bluntly in the real world, the Joker would have gotten a needle a long time ago. Hell even if Gotham was a no death penalty state somehow, I can see bringing it back just for him, the biggest bleeding heart liberal would be forced to nod and say okay just this once.) but failed every one.

Queen Bee? You can't take her to the justice system, she's sovereign. Not beholden to any justice system but her own. Even if you could take her to the Hague, her powers make a fair and objective trail problematic. At some point if anyone really cares about the people under her boot, they're going to have to engineer a revolution and revolution works best when there's no dictator around to oppose them. That would mean assassinating Queen Bee and her inner circle.

I suppose you could take these people and shove them in a League run prison, but that's at least as morally problematic as killing and takes more resources and energy. Plus there's the damn simple fact that no prison can be jail break proof.

As for people like Dick and Clark having problems with killing. Yeah that makes sense. Just because the person you killed was a monster doesn't mean you won't feel guilty or that it won't stay with you. You'll always remember that once upon a time he or she was a baby bouncing on someone's knee and they had people who loved them. When killing becomes easy, that's when it's time to worry.

[Batman]

There's no killing street hoods, and there's no killing period, and DC seems to be firmly in the 'no killing period' corner. Clark, Diana or heck, even me offing a street hood is obviously a no go (like I don't have 19 different ways to take the guy down without killing him).
I very much suspect both Captain Cold and Blockbuster would be up for the death penalty in jurisdictions that have it-they don't go out of their way to kill people, but they don't seem to particularly mind if people get killed in the course of whatever heist they're currently pulling either.
Interestingly enough, as I don't have superpowers and am apparently too bleeping stupid to regularly wear the bulletproof suits, I might get away with claiming self defense if I killed a streed hood.

[JimmyTheCannon]

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Looks like you were right about Aqualad, and it's good to see the reason why. It's nice to see Superman finally got a handle on how to treat Superboy, as well. Also, Wonder Girl's fangirl moment? Hilarious.

[Batman]

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Well, looks like Jimmy finally got his 'Hello Megan' moment Clark seems to have worked out his difficulties with Conner (possibly as a result of him having to confront that he himself has been used as a weapon?), Lagoon Boy is still annoying, and yes, Cassie's fangirl moment was funny, as was Diana's retort ('A little less Cassandra, a little more Wondergirl'). A propos Wondergirl. So did they just skip Donna or is this one more of the Missing 5 Years Mysteries? They changed Batgirl's cape (sensible move) and has anybody called her anything other than Batgirl yet? So far, all we know is she appears to be a redhead and works for me.
So The Light are still in the game...and they're trying to sabotage the Kroloteans? To whom, it appears, the entire invasion was...a business venture. Cue in the mysterious Competitor, who not only allegedly aligned himself with The Light, but also provided either Blue Beetle, Bumblebee or Bibbo with their technology (and while the Bibbo scenario would be hilarious, my money's on Blue Beetle).
Clark remaining behind to try to save the Kroloteans was typical, and them ignoring him because, to them, he was an Earthling was ironic.
End of the episode, us Missing Six (plus Hawkman who comes along as moral support for Shayera), in the manner of stupid superheroes everywhere, head off to give ourselves into the hands of a justice system we know nothing about, that may have the death penaltyfor littering for all we know, and could, quite within the confines of their own laws and the context of a scrupulously fair trial have no legal choice but to ignore the fact that we were essentially under remote control at the time.
So why did The Light have the Missing Six go 'HULK SMASH!' on Rimbor? Where they planning to keep us as their bullies and wanted to establish a reputation (Don't cross the Justice LEague or you'll regret it),did they do it for the express purpose of getting us hated so the rest of the universe would get rid of us in case they didn't manage it, or was it something else entirely?

[JimmyTheCannon]

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I thought she said "A little less fangirl," not Cassandra. But I could be wrong, as that's what I was thinking when she said it.

[Batman]

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On reviewing, I think you're correct, and it would make more sense that way too. My...source isn't exactly DVD quality.

[Dark Silver]

just for further reference, you don't have to spoilize your future postings Gentlemen....consider anyone looking into this thread to expect spoilers.

[JimmyTheCannon]

I suppose that's a good point.

[Batman]

Typical. Just when I finally got the hang of those things.
You could always use time time saved by practicing your italics or quote tags, Master Bruce.
Oh just shut up.

And somebody please tell me the AMAZO on display in the Hall of Justice is a replica.

[frigidmagi]

Pretty sure it's a replica. I enjoyed the episode. Although I wouldn't have turned myself in without doing some review on the legal system in question. I am left annoyed that I didn't get to see Aqualad's fall from grace! That would have been an awesome story! And you put in it a fighting video game that most of us won't get... Assholes.

Lagoon boy is still setting my teeth on edge.

[spoilers]Anyone who actually read the Blue Beetle comic series with Jamie (the orginal not the lame reboot with extra DRAMA!) Knows that the blue beetle armor is of alien origins, these power suits are usually used to inflirate and wreck a planet's system before the aliens show up, look the reach for additional details[/spoilers]

That likely means Artemis is dead... Assholes.

What did happen Wally? Did he become the Flash? If so what happened to Barry? And why are so many of Mehgan's and Connor's classmates now superheroes? Did they get bored and recruit or something?

Bats, they did show Barbara in the 1st series as a classmate of Dick's in the episode where Artemis get's sent to the academy by Bruce Wayne (awful nice of him and all, I wonder if he has a college fund for side kicks set up to?).

Also given that Donna Troy isn't widely known and even those of us with comic knowledge get confused by her backstory... I think they decided to skip it. Can't blame them. Wonder if they'll pair Cass and Connor up like in Teen Titans? The Boy could use a distraction! And Cass is mighty distracting! Plus it'll give Wonder Women kittens. I like the idea of Wonder Women kittens. Oh! I wonder if we'll see Cass's Mom? It would be nice if the teammates met the parents for once (could you image Robin over at Wally's for a Sunday dinner? That would have been AWESOME!).

[Dark Silver]

Just finished the episode...now I have to digest it before I can make the full analysis like I've been doing but....

Holy shit.

Don't fuck with the God Damn Bat-Family.

And I was right about Kaldur'ahm.......but for entirely the wrong reasons.

[Batman]

The God-Damn Bat-Family was hopefully on medication. That was apalling. We were detected before we managed to take down a single Manta goon. We're supposed to be able to take down all of them without anybody noticing.

Frigid: I know the Blue Beetle suit is based on alien technology, but as someone who hasn't read the comics I thought I'd hedge my bets (and admit it-the Bibbo option would have been hilarious).

The bit about Donna was just idle speculation, really. They're already playing fast and loose with Titans/Justice comics continuity as it is so it is entirely possible they did simply skip her (and no great loss, either-they rewrote her backstory like how many times and the most memorable thing I remember her doing is being killed by a Superman robot), I was just wondering wether they did or if that's one of those things that happened in the missing 5 years.
Neither Donna nor Jason are in any way necessary for the narrative so far, they're just something the 5 year gap leaves them room to park in should they want to.

And why the hell was the bioship playing hovercraft on the way out? I can see why it did on the way in (the Arthur/annoying fish boy dropoff) but they were hightailing it out as fast as possible (what with the explosion and all), so unless the damned thing is actually faster at sea level than it is at altitude or they new Arthur would have to collect Clark, why were they hugging the waves?

Brownie point for the bomb not having a painfully visible clock counting down to detonation.

[JimmyTheCannon]

In fairness, Bats, the Bat-family was working with some less stealthy heroes as well.

[Batman]

We were detected before Arthur or Annoying Fish Boy ever made a move. Whose brilliant idea was it to simply take out Sector Three without putting any thought into what would happen if, I dunno, somebody asks for a status report?
Sorry, but by our standards, that's incredibly shoddy work.

[frigidmagi]

You put the whole romance off camera? You bastards!

Glad to see Artemis and Wally are still kicking and together even if they're out of the game. Sounds like they're in college and Wally is at least studying Vietnamese? Good kid. Well not anymore really. In all honesty dropping out of the game is likely best while you're in college, it'll still be there later after all.

This pretty much accounts for everyone doesn't it?

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If this version of Lin ends up smashed under a building someone is getting their eyes scooped out. I'm not kidding here.

Man, could you imagine how Speedy would feel, he's been down and out for the better part of a decade. I'm gonna take this chance for a cheap shot at the Green Arrow. Hey Batman is a manic and he's got 3 sidekicks alive, one of whom is a fully functioning adult without any of Batman's mental issues. You lost a sidekick and never noticed, the other one is insane and Artemis doesn't count because she was never under your wing so to speak. Hey Arrow? You ever thought you might suck at this?

[JimmyTheCannon]

Psst... No s at the end of the first spoiler tag.

Anyways, yeah. Interesting. So that's where Wally and Artemis have been... I thought speculation had been that someone died? Guess that was wrong.

Spot-on about Guardian being an older Roy Harper clone. Although to be perfectly honest, in that scene he looked like an older version of Wally more than anything else.

And yeah, Ollie needs to learn how to raise sidekicks.

[Batman]

Destroy them, I said. Those things are dangerous. If you have to show off, have replicas made. But nooo we had to keep the original host bodies instead. 'What could possibly go wrong?' they asked. Well now you know.
Conner of all people telling Blue Beetle off for not having done his homework was hilarious, we got a little more information on the suit, and Sphere's still called Sphere despite being a flying motorcycle most of the time.
Let's see if Whisper A'Daire and Bruno Mannheim were just casual name drops for the fans or if they actually do something with them.
Wally's little speech about how none of them ever actually knew the real Roy Harper was surprisingly logical.
Roy being a daddy I didn't see coming (and neither did he ). Any guesses on why he needs so much money and might it be connected with why he's totally off his game?

And in all fairness to Ollie telling a clone from the original isn't exactly all that easy, especially if the clone thinks he is the original. You can hardly fault him for that. His aptitude at raising sidekicks on the other hand...

[JimmyTheCannon]

Wally being logical - clearly, the world is coming to an end.

[Dark Silver]

I liked this episode a great deal.....also it threw out my speculation almost entirely.

My assumption and speculation was based off the tag line for the upcoming Young Justice game which links Season 1 and 2, and aside from Kaldur'ahm falling to become a villain....I was entirely wrong.

I'm actually very very GLAD I was wrong. I didn't want to see Artemis dead, and to have her and Wally not only alive, both happy together and out of the hero business and enjoying their life and relationship was just heart warming to see.

It never dawned on me that Red Arrow was the one they would be trying to save. It was rather mind boggling that Cheshire and Roy got together, much less married, AND have a baby together. Hopefully that bit there was enough to pull Roy out of his funk....it was sad to see him fall so hard. I'm rooting for him.

Kon El showed how much he matured and grown in the past five years. I guess this still shows how new Blue Beetle is to the team still, and to his powers. We also get some backstory on not only the Scarab, but on the previous Blue Beetle...

And the Partner definitely looks to be a member of the Reach who has been fully bonded with a "working" Scarab, unlike Jamie's malfunctioning one. And yes, Detective, I'm still saying the the Beetle is Reach tech - Young Justice doesn't seem to be straying TOO far from the comic origins for most of the characters.

Bruno Manheim is not just being name dropped, Superboy specifically mentioned he was one of the guys behind Intergang - we're still just seeing the early stages of Intergang and Bruno's conversion to the Cult of Darksied. I'm pretty sure Whisper is being set up to eventually came work for me....as is only proper. Miss Adair made a excellent agent for me post NML.

[frigidmagi]

Roy being a daddy I didn't see coming (and neither did he ).

It was rather mind boggling that Cheshire and Roy got together, much less married, AND have a baby together. Hopefully that bit there was enough to pull Roy out of his funk...

It's not surprising or boggling if you read the comics. Talk about not doing the reading

And in all fairness to Ollie telling a clone from the original isn't exactly all that easy, especially if the clone thinks he is the original.

That's why it's a cheap shot Bats. I have no interest in being fair to the Green Arrow. I'd gleefully take him out of the hero game one way or another as along as I got to keep Red, Speedy (the girl from the pre-52 TT) and now Artemis. Seriously having them all working with Black Carney or even the Birds of Prey would make for more interesting stuff then fucking Green Arrow. I mean damn, when your side kicks are more interesting then you are... Yeah. I mean the best stories of Green Arrow are when he's the Green Latern's street level buddy. That was what? 40 years ago? It's been 4 decades and no one has been able to top or even equal that. It's time Oliee was sent out out to pasture.

[Batman]

I know Roy was a daddy in the comics, just as I know the incident you referred to earlier, thank you kindly. What I didn't expect was for them to put that aspect into YJ, especially not with the 'the real Roy was replaced from the word go' angle. And some of us have indeed not read the comics (much).

[Dark Silver]

So......

Today's episode gives us incontrovertible evidence that Queen Bee is still up and kicking, and it's the same Marina Sirtis voiced Queen Bee at that. Well hell.

Today's Main and B Plot's were both pretty good, and if I had to chose, I'd say the Alpha Team Main Plot was the weaker of the two - if only because the B PLot was Jamie and the Armor. Though in the end, we see that both of them tie together.

Richard's "There's just no right answer to this" then signing off was pretty amusing to Batgirl's question. M'gann continues to be....sadistic, almost in her power use, she's gotten darker and more menacing to me with her usage. Makes me wonder at times what the hell happened to her in five years. She seemed almost THRILLED to see Psymon up and around, and the way she looked at Jr after Bumblebee broke Psymon's concentration. . . well, shivers man. Shivers.

Jamie's interactions with the suit continue to amuse, and tell how direct the Suit is in it's methodology. It wants to answer everything with the Plasma Cannon apparently - or some form of brute force.

[Batman]

Both of them tieing together was a given from the moment Bee finds the strays in their (presumably) stasis capsules. At least the A plot had an ending.
Megan has definitely gone darker for some reason, which especially for her is one hell of a change of personality. Seems to work so far though. Let's hope there's a believable reason for it and that we find out about it in the series.
The Blue Beetle suit being agressive we already knew, but apparently it can also deploy (and possibly use?) weapons on its own (I got the distinct feeling that if Jamie hadn't intervened, the suit would have fired on Maurice and Ty's grandfather on its own).
Other than the rookie mistake of flying across a full moon later Cassandra did good. She immediately realized the presence of Psymon compromised the psychic link, got into the hangar undetected, and managed to locate Megan-which raises the question of 'how'. The shimmery semitransparent look is usually for the benefit of the viewer, in universe the character is supposed to be truly invisible.
So either Megan looks just like that to other characters too (which makes that mode of decidedly limited utility) or Cassie had some other way of pinpointing her location (possibly something associated with the-at the time still active-psychic link?)
We got some information on the limits of Megan's and Cassie's strength: neither of them can lift (or at the very least break the fall of) a twin engine propeller driven cargo plane (max weight of the real world equivalent fully fueled and loaded-50 to 60 tons or so) so they're either considerably weaker than Clark, or Clark is even weaker than he was in the Timmverse (we haven't seen YJ Clark in action much so far so hard to tell what he's capable of).
EDIT: Knew I forgot something.
I really like how consistent they are with the stealth approach on missions that require it. Not only is Cassandra wearing all black, but even the inevitable yellow chest eagle turns grey.