Egypt: You say you wanna Revolution?
Moderator: frigidmagi
#51
Dear U.S. Government: I am feeling all sorts of inspired and riled up after witnessing two successfully overthrown governments. I suggest you do not give me a reason to try here.
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#52
Now now, we just want rid of the GOP, remember.Charon wrote:Dear U.S. Government: I am feeling all sorts of inspired and riled up after witnessing two successfully overthrown governments. I suggest you do not give me a reason to try here.
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#54
And accepting the premises of supply-side economics, and punting on global climate change, and so forth...The Minx wrote:Honestly? The Democrats need a wake-up call too, with Obama's shenanigans, such as expanding the unconstitutional Bush-era anti-terror programs.
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#55
As Obama more or less said in his last speech, it is simply time to push for a democratic government in Egypt, even if that means risking the Muslim Brotherhood or some other group gaining power. At a certain point, the viability of imposing stability in the Middle East by means of dictators is not going to work. Democratic regimes offer the best chance of permanent stability there.
Gaze upon my works, ye mighty, and despair...
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."
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#56
BBC
The Army has also pledged a transition to freely elected civilian rule but at the moment no timetable.Egypt's military authorities have reaffirmed the country's commitment to all its international treaties.
The announcement, which was read by a senior officer on state TV, implicitly confirms that the country's peace treaty with Israel will remain intact.
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu welcomed the announcement, saying the treaty was a cornerstone of Middle East stability.
Meanwhile the authorities have banned three senior officials close to Mr Mubarak from foreign travel.
The three are former Prime Minister Ahmed Nazif, former Interior Minister Habib al-Adli and current Information Minister Anas al-Fekky.
State TV said the men were under investigation, but no more details were available.
The moves came as thousands of people maintained a presence in Cairo's Tahrir Square, celebrating President Hosni Mubarak's resignation on Friday after 18 days of protests.
The BBC's Wyre Davis in central Cairo says there is still a huge party going on on the square, but a degree of normality is returning to other parts of the city.
Egypt and Israel enjoyed friendly ties during Mr Mubarak's rule
The army has been encouraging people on the square to leave, he says, but its own presence there has been reduced, and there is a hardcore of protesters who want to stay until a full timetable of reform has been drawn up.
Our correspondent adds that a small army of volunteers and municipal workers have been clearing away debris from the streets.
US President Obama said he "welcomed the historic change that has been made by the Egyptian people".
He also "welcomed the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces' announcement today that it is committed to a democratic civilian transition, and will stand by Egypt's international obligations," a statement released by the White House said.
Cautious welcome
"The Arab Republic of Egypt is committed to all regional and international obligations and treaties," the military statement said.
Our correspondent says this should allay the concerns of the United States and Israel, where politicians are anxious that a change in leadership could jeopardise the 1979 peace treaty.
The military also said it had asked the current government to stay on until a new one was formed, which would "pave the way for an elected civil authority to build a free democratic state".
It gave no official timetable for the transition.
But later state media reported that Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, who heads the military high command which took power on Friday, had met Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq and other senior officials to discuss "the immediate return of life to normality".
With Interior Minister Mahmoud Wagdy he discussed the rapid return to duty of the police, who left the streets in the early days of the protests, the media said.
Continue reading the main story
At the scene
Yolande Knell
BBC News, Cairo
After the party comes the clean-up. Hundreds of young people are at work in Tahrir Square and on the surrounding streets and bridges. All litter has been removed and the ground swept clear. The air smells of detergent.
Some volunteers carry signs that read: "Sorry for the disturbance. We build Egypt."
Outside the Omar Makram mosque at the side of the square, burnt-out vehicles, a reminder of some of the chaos and violence of the past two weeks, are now being towed away. Paving stones torn up during riots are being relaid and razor wire is being removed.
All of this activity marks the beginning of a return to normal life in the busy city centre but it also has symbolic importance.
A young teacher, Alia, tells me: "It's time to prove to the whole world this revolution is not about just removing the regime. It's about making a new country from the pavement upwards."
The police force in Egypt was widely perceived as an instrument of repression under Mr Mubarak.
Protesters gave a cautious welcome to the army statement.
"It was a good thing," 21-year-old Muhammed Ibrahim told the Associated Press news agency. "We don't want there to be a political void."
Mr Mubarak, whose resignation was announced by his Vice-President, Omar Suleiman, on Friday afternoon, handed power to the high command, a body composed of high-ranking generals.
Shortly before the announcement, Mr Mubarak left Cairo for the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, where he has a residence.
The military has managed to give the impression of being above politics, a unifying force for the nation, says the BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo.
But the opposition wants an early and clear indication that this country is heading in a new direction and not simply swapping one dictatorship for another, says our correspondent.
In a separate development, the regulator of Egypt's stock market said trading would be put off for three more days, opening again on Wednesday.
The exchange was closed on 28 January, three days after the protests began.
The demonstrations were triggered by widespread unrest over unemployment, poverty and corruption.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
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#58
Found it
Egypt's military has outlined a timetable to hand power to an elected government, insisting it does not want political power in a country where it propped up an authoritarian state for six decades.
The army, praised for overseeing a mostly peaceful revolution, is running into a storm of wage and subsidy demands overtaking pressure for democracy and piling more burdens on an already teetering economy.
Pro-democracy marches have subsided but thousands of workers in banks, textile and food factories, oil facilities and government offices went on strike this week, emboldened by the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak.
"The Higher Military Council expressed its hope to hand over power within six months to a civilian authority and a president elected in a peaceful and free manner that expresses the views of the people," an armed forces statement said on Tuesday.
"The council affirmed that it does not seek power, that the current situation was imposed on the armed forces and that they have the confidence of the people."
The Islamist Brotherhood, which did not play a leading role in the revolution but has been Egypt's best-organised opposition group for many years, said it wanted the military to carry out further steps immediately.
"We, together with the entire nation ... are in need of a bridge of confidence between the army and the people," Essam al-Erian, a senior Brotherhood member, told Reuters, referring to lifting emergency law and releasing political prisoners.
Egypt's central bank said banks would remain closed on Wednesday and Thursday after being closed on Monday by strikes.
Some secular leaders fret that racing into presidential and parliamentary elections in a nation where Mubarak suppressed most opposition activity for 30 years may hand an edge to the Brotherhood.
A committee headed by an independent judge that met on Tuesday has been given 10 days to draft amendments to the constitution. The plan is to then put these to a referendum.
"When the popular demand for the freedom to form parties is realised, the group will found a political party," the Brotherhood said in a new statement.
VICTORY MARCH
Pro-democracy leaders plan a big "Victory March" on Friday to celebrate the revolution -- and perhaps also to remind the military of the power of the street.
In Tahrir Square, scene of clashes between protesters and police during the revolt, traffic flowed freely on Tuesday. Army tanks and armoured vehicles around the square and other Cairo locations have now been sandbagged into position.
Rumours swirled about Mubarak's health. Saudi-owned Asharq al-Awsat newspaper said it was deteriorating and the deposed president had refused to go abroad for treatment.
A military source said Mubarak, 82, believed to be in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, was "breathing". Another Egyptian source with links to the family said he was unwell.
But a source who said he spoke to Mubarak on Tuesday described him as "fine" and receiving telephone calls.
U.S. President Barack Obama condemned Iran's crackdown on unrest inspired by Egypt's uprising, and urged Middle Eastern states to take heed of their peoples' aspirations for democracy.
"I find it ironic that you've got the Iranian regime pretending to celebrate what happened in Egypt, when in fact they have acted in direct contrast to what happened in Egypt by gunning down and beating people who were trying to express themselves peacefully," he said.
In Bahrain, Shi'ite protesters camped out in a central square to press demands for change after a day of unrest inspired by the revolts in Egypt and, weeks earlier, in Tunisia.
Analysts say large-scale unrest in Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet and a regional offshore banking centre, could embolden marginalised Shi'ites in nearby Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
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#59
This is not yet corroborated, but it seems reasonable:
The report is from Robert Fisk, a fairly seasoned veteran of middle eastern reporting. You can read it here.Last night [Feb 10], a military officer guarding the tens of thousands celebrating in Cairo threw down his rifle and joined the demonstrators, yet another sign of the ordinary Egyptian soldier's growing sympathy for the democracy demonstrators. We had witnessed many similar sentiments from the army over the past two weeks. But the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.
Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.
Thus when General Hassan al-Rawani told the massive crowds yesterday evening that "everything you want will be realised – all your demands will be met", the people cried back: "The army and the people stand together – the army and the people are united. The army and the people belong to one hand."
Last edited by General Havoc on Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gaze upon my works, ye mighty, and despair...
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."