The Third Reich with Functioning Magic

[Norseman]

As most of you probably know the Third Reich was screwed from the start, just about the only way to have them win is to wave your hands and go "Poof! Magic!" So let's do just that!

As you may or may not know the Nazi's did a lot of research into the occult. They had pendulum wielders standing over maps; they sent expeditions into Tibet, and other parts of the world. They had rituals in ancient castles, and so forth.

So what if it had worked? How big an edge would it have given them?

Lets put down a few ground rules first:

The Nazi's have a monopoly on these abilities, since they: require rites and sacrifices that only the Stalinists would even consider; require people initiated into various Germanic occult orders; and require various unique ritual items.

The Nazi's begin to gain these abilities in the 1930s, but for various reasons little is done with them other than preventing assassinations. It's not until the war begins that the Strategic Fortunetelling Department really begins to make a contribution.

So how much would they need to win the war? Which scenario would do the trick?

Scenario 1
* Predicting the course and composition of convoys, and individual ships.
* Predicting the size and overall composition of enemy armed forces.
* Predicting the weather up to three months in advance.
* Predicting grave danger, and the general type of danger, against a person or a building up to three days in advance.

Accuracy in all fields is roughly 80%-90%, though it will increase as the war progresses.

A quick note on the latter point: For various reasons it's generally more useful to prevent assassinations of high officials, or know when to evacuate important buildings. You could use it on common soldiers, but it's a cumbersome ritual, and even if there's a battle brewing it might not show up as grave danger! After all if you're soldier is going to get away unscathed he's not in danger.

Scenario 2
All of the above, and:

* The ability to manipulate the weather.

Note that weather manipulation would be tricky, and they'd only be able to create weather patterns that could have occurred naturally. E.g. no tsunamis in England, or month long storms. Fog banks, clouds, storms that could occur naturally, and so forth are of course permissible.

We'll assume that it's somewhat difficult though; e.g. something you could use to protect or aid a major operation, not for every day use.

Scenario 3
All of the above, and:

* The ability to summon a division equivalent of demons.
* Four Great Dragons.

A division equivalent of demons means, effectively, that wherever you can have thirteen mages (and their numbers are extremely limited, and they're very hard to replace) chanting for a few hours, you can summon a number of demons with a fighting force equivalent to a mechanized/armoured division. They'll only stay for two or three days though, after which you'll need a new rite (and of course there's a price to be paid for their services...)

The great dragons are each equivalent to 200-300 fighters wherever they turn up. However they have a series of advantages: first they have virtually unlimited ceiling (they're magic alright?); second they can stay in the air for a couple of days at a time (though they have to rest afterwards). They can be killed, but it's very difficult.

Scenario 4
All of the above, and:

* The ability to summon a corps (2-4 division) equivalent of demons.
* A dozen Great Dragons.

Scenario 5
All of the above, and:

* The ability to summon an army group (10-15 divisions) equivalent of demons.
* Ability to make the Kraken rise from the depths to eat enemy fleets.

By Kraken I mean an enormous octopus big enough to crush ships with a single tentacle. Pretty much impossible to kill, at least without nuclear weapons. Its main weakness is that it can only be in one place at a time, and it's not too fast. Good for coastal defence, or for escorting naval task forces, not so good for destroying fleets on the high seas.

Scenario 6
All of the above, and:

* The Norse gods join in!

P.S. You have to go to Scenario 4 or 5 before you can pull off Sealion! Yes Operation Sealion is really that impossible.

Throwing magic and what not into things is fantasy. Fantasy stuff belongs in the fantasy forum.

That is all.

[frigidmagi]

What rules are we following with the demons here? Because exorcism is not magic and therefore not a monopoly for the Nazis. Of all the Axis powers does only Germany get occult powers? What of Italy and the other European Axis members? What of Japan who has an occult tradition of its own?

Also such actions are going to make the Christians of Europe be they axis citizens or occupied nations, uneasy and riled up. Especially when they start summoning Demons or Pagan gods.

I am not so sure Thor and Balder would like the camps. Conqearing Europe they would be cool with, enslaving folk wouldn't raise an eyebrow, wiping out people for rather silly reasons might strike them as... Trollish. Odin might not give 3 shits though.

[Cynical Cat]

What rules are we following with the demons here? Because exorcism is not magic and therefore not a monopoly for the Nazis.

Exorcism is most definitely magic. Its semantics to call it anything else. Christians just aren't used to calling it magic but its calling upon the intervention of one supernatural force to expell or banish another supernatural force. Magic.

[Norseman]

What rules are we following with the demons here? Because exorcism is not magic and therefore not a monopoly for the Nazis.

To be nice I'll grant that various holy men can slow them down, or stop them. However holy men are in short supply, and there's always snipers.

Of all the Axis powers does only Germany get occult powers? What of Italy and the other European Axis members? What of Japan who has an occult tradition of its own?

Most people concentrate mainly on the Axis, and therefore so did I.

Also such actions are going to make the Christians of Europe be they axis citizens or occupied nations, uneasy and riled up. Especially when they start summoning Demons or Pagan gods.

Oh definitely, it's going to be a propaganda boom for the Allies... and cause a lot of consternation and trouble.

I am not so sure Thor and Balder would like the camps. Conqearing Europe they would be cool with, enslaving folk wouldn't raise an eyebrow, wiping out people for rather silly reasons might strike them as... Trollish. Odin might not give 3 shits though.

Probably yes.

[frigidmagi]

Most people concentrate mainly on the Axis, and therefore so did I.

No you concentrated on Nazi Germany, Axis would be the whole bloody alliance, Germany, Italy, Japan and the various central euro states.