Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

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#1 Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692
Militiamen in Libya have stormed the US consulate in Benghazi, the country's second largest city.

Reports say they were protesting against a US-made film that is allegedly insulting to the Prophet Muhammad, and set fire to the building.

The building is said to have burnt down. It is thought nobody was in the consulate at the time.

Earlier, protesters in Egypt breached the wall at the US embassy in Cairo and tore down a flag over the film.

The film that sparked the protest is said to have been produced by US pastor Terry Jones and co-produced by some Egyptian Copt expatriates.

In the Cairo incident, the American flag, which was flying at half mast to mark the 9/11 attacks, was replaced by an Islamist banner.

Thousands of protesters had gathered outside the US embassy in the Egyptian capital.

Egyptian protesters condemned what they said was the humiliation of the Prophet of Islam under the pretext of freedom of speech.
Every time I think I may be mellowing on my atheism, I read a story like this.

"Someone told me that somebody might have said something critical of my religion. Clearly we should kill people who resemble that person in some way and burn buildings down. This will properly teach people to criticize the religion of peace!"
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#2 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by Derek Thunder »

I dunno, I could kind of see it. If I'd just been through an incredibly bloody months-long civil war and my faith was one of the few things that kept me from utter despair during that I'd be angry too if some pampered putz from Florida made a career out of ripping on Islam and its central figure.

E: Not that it excuses violence, I'm just disinclined to count this one against religion or islam.
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#3 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

Well I am inclined to count this one in that way. Given that this sort of thing seems to keep happening in the Moslem World.
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#4 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by White Haven »

Two addendums. First, two people were killed in the attack on the Benghazi consulate, one US ambassador and one State Department IT staffer.

Second, and much more probability-defying, the State Department IT staffer was also a diplomat...in EVE Online. Known in-game as Vile Rat, he was perhaps one of the most famous and world-shaping diplomats in EVE nullsec politics and was directly responsible for much of the current state of affairs in the game.

Small world...
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#5 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by Josh »

Holy shit, Vilerat was also a mod for the political forum at SA. He was a pretty smart dude and a wealth of information on how the consular service works. Last I saw from him was some posts on the whole Assange asylum discussion.
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#6 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by Josh »

Hell, this is what he had to say in that Assange discussion just last month:

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#7 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by rhoenix »

Apparently the actors in the movie weren't quite aware of the nature of the movie being made.
gawker.com wrote:The story of the Muhammed movie which sparked deadly protests in Libya gets weirder. The actors who appeared in it had no idea they were starring in anti-Islam propaganda which depicts Muhammed as a child molester and thug. They were deceived by the film's director, believing they were appearing in a film about the life of a generic Egyptian 2,000 years ago.

Cindy Lee Garcia, an actress from Bakersfield, Calif., has a small role in the Muhammed movie as a woman whose young daughter is given to Muhammed to marry. But in a phone interview this afternoon, Garcia told us she had no idea she was participating in an offensive spoof on the life of Muhammed when she answered a casting call through an agency last summer and got the part.
The script she was given was titled simply Desert Warriors.

"It was going to be a film based on how things were 2,000 years ago," Garcia said. "It wasn't based on anything to do with religion, it was just on how things were run in Egypt. There wasn't anything about Muhammed or Muslims or anything."

In the script and during the shooting, nothing indicated the controversial nature of the final product. Muhammed wasn't even called Muhammed; he was "Master George," Garcia said. The words Muhammed were dubbed over in post-production, as were essentially all other offensive references to Islam and Muhammed.

For example, at 9:03 in the trailer, Garcia berates her husband, who wants to send their daughter to Muhammed: "Is your Muhammed a child molester?" she says in the final product. But the words are dubbed over what she actually said. The line in the script—and the line Garcia gave during filming—was, "is your God a child molester," Garcia told us today.

Garcia was horrified when she saw the end product, and when protesters in Libya killed four U.S. Embassy employee.

"I had nothing to do really with anything. Now we have people dead because of a movie I was in. It makes me sick."

According to Garica, her three days on set last July were unremarkable. The film's mysterious pseudonymous writer and director, "Sam Bacile," has claimed to be an Israeli real estate mogul. But Garcia said Bacile told her he was Egyptian on set. Bacile had white hair and spoke Arabic to a number of "dark-skinned" men who hung around the set, she said. (A Bacile associate also told The Atlantic he wasn't Israeli or Jewish.)

"He was just really mellow. He was just sitting there and he wanted certain points to be made."

Once, Garcia said, Bacile wanted a girl that "Master George" (aka Muhammed) was to sleep with to look seven years old, instead of 10, to heighten the outrage. But his Assistant Directors protested, saying that was too young.

After the protests erupted and Bacile appeared in the media, Garcia called him up to express her outrage at his deception.

"I called Sam and said, 'Why did you do this?' and he said, 'I'm tired of radical Islamists killing each other. Let other actors know it's not their fault.'"

Garcia isn't satisfied simply knowing it wasn't her fault.

"I'm going to sue his butt off."

Update: The entire 80-member cast and crew of the film have released a statement saying they were misled. Via CNN:
The entire cast and crew are extremely upset and feel taken advantage of by the producer. We are 100% not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose. We are shocked by the drastic re-writes of the script and lies that were told to all involved. We are deeply saddened by the tragedies that have occurred.
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#8 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

I am disgusted beyond words by the prevailing argument that seems to be taking form online that "If only the US did not allow free speech, their ambassadors would not be murdered."

This was a pre-meditated attack on the embassy using the pretext of a film as cover. I want fucking heads.

Oh, and incidentally? I'm going to watch that film. It is generally my policy to make an effort to see movies that medieval psychopaths threaten war over. No doubt it is crude, right-wing, anti-islamic propaganda. Thanks to the murderers who did this, I will see it anyway.
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#9 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by SirNitram »

The Transition Council needs to prosecute this extensively.
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#10 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by frigidmagi »

Odds are good they ain't going to. They're getting a handle on the country but there are plenty of militas out there that refuse to disarm and the TC wants an actual government and army set up before it starts something that could start a 2nd civil war.

Now, I'll say this. This movie was unnecessary. There was nothing here but a desire to offend people. That said, the movie makers were perfectly within their rights! Why should Muslims expect to be treated better then any other group? Atheists have to put up with movies that make them look like assholes, narrow mined idiots and so on and so forth. Christians have to put with piss Christ and media that makes them look like prudes obsessed with controlling other people's sex life (while having none of their own). Hindu's in this country get to look like rubes or made fun of as funny foreigners who can't speak a civilized language. I'm not even gonna get into the things racial groups have to put with and if we start talking about sexual orientation or gender we'll be on this topic next fucking year!

Part of freedom of speech is you have to learn that YES! It gives people the right to say things about you that you don't like! Part of being mature and civilized is learning to deal with that in a fashion that doesn't involve butchering people because they said something offensive or murdering people for vaguely looking like someone who said something offensive.
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#11 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by frigidmagi »

Addendum: I learned recently that 10 Libyans were injuried or killed defending the American embassy. I'm seeking to confirm this. I post this separately to ensure it is seen.
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#12 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

Freedom of Speech must include the right to offend and hurt feelings if it is to actually be freedom of speech. I have absolutely no sympathy either for those who think such 'insults' merit violence, nor those who would blame the insults for the violence in question. That such excuses are even brought up as mitigating factors is disgusting to me.

Every time I see such excuses being made, my response shall be to exercise my rights of free speech to insult Islam. Publicly. Anyone who wishes to murder people may apply for my address. Come armed.
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#13 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by SirNitram »

Just a question: Does Libya HAVE the right to freedom of speech?
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#14 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

Freedom of Speech is a universal right, enshrined in the UN charter as one of the rights of man and explicitly called for in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which Libya is a signatory. Whether there are laws on the ground that permit freedom of speech (doubtful) or whether those laws are applied in practice (assuredly not), is frankly immaterial. There exists no Freedom of Speech in North Korea either, yet we do not condone or attempt to excuse the murder of critics of dear Leader.
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#15 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by frigidmagi »

A: The movie was made in the States. So how do Libyan laws apply?

B:The Libyan government has made no statement of being offended or really about the movie. The Egyptian government is calling for the US to ban the movie, which we're going to do.

C: The Libyan people seemed less then thrilled with this attack.
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#16 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

frigidmagi wrote:B:The Libyan government has made no statement of being offended or really about the movie. The Egyptian government is calling for the US to ban the movie, which we're going to do.
We are?

Since when, exactly, is it the business of the US government to ban films that offend other people?
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#17 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by frigidmagi »

Excuse me, I skipped word in that sentence. It should read which we're NOT going to do. Apologies.
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#18 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

frigidmagi wrote:Excuse me, I skipped word in that sentence. It should read which we're NOT going to do. Apologies.
Ahhhhh, that makes significantly more sense. No issue then.
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#19 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by rhoenix »

More fun with our new troll, Sam Bacile.
gawker.com wrote:Sam Bacile, the filmmaker who took credit fora the explosive anti-Islam film Muslim Innocence, told the media he was an Israeli, who made the movie with $5 million from 100 Jewish donors. But as we've learned from the actors themselves, nothing about the film is what it seems. All evidence suggests "Sam Bacile" is in fact an Egytian Coptic Christian and convicted fraudster living in California.

Questions are swirling around the identity of Sam Bacile, who has gone into hiding since his film went viral and protests exploded. After he claimed to be an Israeli real estate mogul, an associate said he was actually not Israeli, and "Sam Bacile" was a fake name. Who is this guy, and why did he make such a dumb movie?
Now the AP has tracked down 55-year-old Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who admits that he was involved in the logistics of the film. He denied he's the director or Sam Bacile, but evidence suggests that he and Bacile are the same person. A phone number Nakoula gave the AP that supposedly belonged to "Sam" was traced back to Nakoula's address. A document search by the AP showed Nakoula had used the Bacile persona in the past. And a law enforcement official appeared to confirm today that Nakoula was Sam Bacile. (Not to mention "Basseley" = "Bacile"; Nakoula tried to hide his middle name when the AP asked to see his license.)

Not much is known about Nakoula. He's a Coptic Christian, a crook, and may have violated a court order by participating in the making and distribution of the video. From the AP:
Nakoula, who talked guardedly about his role, pleaded no contest in 2010 to federal bank fraud charges in California and was ordered to pay more than $790,000 in restitution. He was also sentenced to 21 months in federal prison and ordered not to use computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.

The YouTube account, "Sam Bacile," which was used to publish excerpts of the provocative movie in July, was used to post comments online as recently as Tuesday, including this defense of the film written in Arabic: "It is a 100 percent American movie, you cows."
Nakoula worked with a Christian non-profit called Media for Christ, based in Duarte, Calif., to produce the film, according to film permits reported by the Los Angeles Daily News. LA Weekly dug up an old Media for Christ MySpace page that describes its mission:
The International Media is crowded with many topics that do not bring glory to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ . The Lord has given me the vision for Media for Christ so we could proclaim the peace of Jesus through than effective Christian media that would positively touch everyone . In June 2005 by the grace of God Media for Christ was established to become the light that shows Jesus Christ to all human beings.
Media Christ denied involvement in the film to reporters. But a call sheet we've obtained from the filming in 2011 clearly states that the film, originally called Desert Warriors, is a "MEDIA FOR CHRIST Productions" project.
It appears there may have been more than a single layer of trolling involved.
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#20 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by Josh »

I don't think the movie is particularly relevant. If people want to peacefully protest it, that's their right just like saying nasty things about Islam is anybody else's right. And since the word seems to be that this was a planned attack that used the protest for cover, focusing on the movie is probably giving it more attention that it deserves.
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#21 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by rhoenix »

If that last point is true, then I'll let it go. I prefer a) making fun of, and b) infuriating trolls, not helping them. Unless "helping them" includes a combination of a) and/or b).
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#22 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

Josh wrote:I don't think the movie is particularly relevant. If people want to peacefully protest it, that's their right just like saying nasty things about Islam is anybody else's right. And since the word seems to be that this was a planned attack that used the protest for cover, focusing on the movie is probably giving it more attention that it deserves.
This. This right here. The film is nothing more than a smokescreen for medieval psychopaths to somehow blame the US for this barbaric incident. I am sick of hearing about this fucking movie. It neither caused nor justified this murder, and treating it as though it were the crux of the issue is disgraceful.
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#23 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by rhoenix »

General Havoc wrote:
Josh wrote:I don't think the movie is particularly relevant. If people want to peacefully protest it, that's their right just like saying nasty things about Islam is anybody else's right. And since the word seems to be that this was a planned attack that used the protest for cover, focusing on the movie is probably giving it more attention that it deserves.
This. This right here. The film is nothing more than a smokescreen for medieval psychopaths to somehow blame the US for this barbaric incident. I am sick of hearing about this fucking movie. It neither caused nor justified this murder, and treating it as though it were the crux of the issue is disgraceful.
Having attacked it as if it were, I have to concede the point. The movie itself is shitty, and shitty at being insulting. To blame the filmmaker for the events of what happened not only is stupid, but also misses the point.

This article I found tonight I'll post a snippet of - it appears Rachel Maddow's factfinding agrees with Havoc's assessment.
rawstory.com wrote:On her show Thursday night, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow explained that the attack on a U.S. consulate in Libya appeared to be the work of an organized jihadist group rather than the act of an angry mob.

She noted that Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, who was killed along with three other Americans, wrote a diplomatic cable in 2008 regarding Libya that was later released by WikiLeaks. The cable described Derna, a city not far from Benghazi where Stevens was killed, as a hotbed of al Qaeda activity.

“One Libyan interlocutor likened young men in Derna to Bruce Willis’ character in the action picture ‘Die Hard,’ who stubbornly refused to die quietly,” Stevens wrote. “For them, resistance against coalition forces in Iraq is an important act of ‘jihad’ and a last act of defiance against the Qadhafi regime.”

Initial reports claimed the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was the result of Muslim anger over a crude anti-Islam film produced in the United States. But additional reports of the incident suggest the consulate faced an organized assault from heavily-armed militants sympathetic to al Qaeda.

“Anybody who tells you that what happened to our ambassador and our consulate was the result of a protest over an offensive movie, you should ask them why they think that,” Maddow said. “I mean, that was the first version of events we heard, that does not seem to explain what happened that night. It does not seem to be born out by the facts the more facts we get.”
There is a video clip of her show at the link.
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#24 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by SirNitram »

Indeed. However, I still want to give the 'filmmaker' a peice of my mind and possibly my boot for his deception of those who helped him, and his efforts to incite trouble.
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#25 Re: Libya militias storm US consulate over 'insulting' film

Post by General Havoc »

SirNitram wrote:Indeed. However, I still want to give the 'filmmaker' a peice of my mind and possibly my boot for his deception of those who helped him, and his efforts to incite trouble.
I'm a little more concerned with the guys in Syria who've murdered 20,000 people indiscriminately than I am with a kook in SoCal who made a fucking youtube movie.

You know, the ones trying to milk this video thing as hard as they can to deflect attention from the ongoing fucking mass-murder that they are perpetrating?
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