Star Trek: Death of the Federation

[rhoenix]

In regards to post-visual range engagements, I am completely okay with sniping someone from across a solar system. Just to put that out there.

Also, do any standard torpedoes have warp drives?

Shit, that reminds me. A minelayer, or reasonable facsimile thereof could be very useful.

[Cynical Cat]

Photon torps are warp capable. Beam weapons can also be used at warp, but they're range is significantly shorter.

[Stofsk]

They're warp capable in the sense you can fire them at warp but they don't have warp engines themselves.

At least I don't think they do.

[Cynical Cat]

They're warp capable in the sense you can fire them at warp but they don't have warp engines themselves.

At least I don't think they do.

According to Memory Alpha, they can sustain warp speed for short time, but don't actually generate a warp field. Something else (i.e. the ship which would explain why the power cost is high enough to prevent them from being spammed while cloaked) has to generate the initial warp field which they then maintain when they leave the ship and fly at their target.

[rhoenix]

Something else (i.e. the ship which would explain why the power cost is high enough to prevent them from being spammed while cloaked) has to generate the initial warp field which they then maintain when they leave the ship and fly at their target.

...Oh, my.

Hey Fisher, I hope you're writing this one down. I know for a fact I'll be using this.

Thank you, CynCat.

[Cynical Cat]

Beam weapons and torps can be used and are used at warp. Torps have the better range, but the persistent problem with cloaking devices is that

1) they're energy hogs

2) the more stuff you do the easier you are to detect

3) charging and firing weapons if comparatively easy to detect with Star Trek sensors

means that in general no firing while cloaked or if you fired while cloaked you were easily found and tracked so the cloak becomes a giant burden on your ships systems while doing jack. Yes, Nemesis and VI had ships that could do it, but the Scimitar is basically a giant exercise in masturbation.

[rhoenix]

I'm not talking about doing so while cloaked; have no worries about that. My ship isn't designed for it, nor is the ship set up for it.

However, tossing torps at someone while at warp is what I'm talking about.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not counting on the cloaking devices to be effective against the Borg for very long.

[Cynical Cat]

However, tossing torps at someone while at warp is what I'm talking about.

Of course you can toss torps (and phasers and disruptors and so on) at people at warp. How else would starship combat happen? The weaker party would just stay at warp if weapons couldn't hurt them.

[Stofsk]

I seem to recall most of the space battles that took place in TOS did so at warp velocities, which makes a lot of sense really for the reasons CynCat notes above.

[Cynical Cat]

I seem to recall most of the space battles that took place in TOS did so at warp velocities, which makes a lot of sense really for the reasons CynCat notes above.

I'm not sure about most, but a substantial portion did.

[Stofsk]

I need to rewatch TOS to determine this.

for SCIENCE

[Cynical Cat]

I need to rewatch TOS to determine this.

for SCIENCE

A detailed episode by episode breakdown. For Science. No personal enjoyment at all.

But off the top of my head:

Journey to Babel: Warp

Balance of Terror: All impulse

Elaan of Troyius: Warp strafing

[Stofsk]

Had they decided then that impulse power was their sub-warp capability? Because it seems unreal to think the Romulan Bird of Prey wasn't capable of FTL speeds.

As I remember, Scotty says their power was 'simple impulse'. That might refer to their power plant rather than their engines.

That said, the cloak would have consumed much of their power anyway, but they were still returning home so it seems reasonable to assume they had low-level warp capability.

Must make note: study TOS to determine this. Need scientific apparatus like popcorn and fizzy drinks.

[Cynical Cat]

Had they decided then that impulse power was their sub-warp capability? Because it seems unreal to think the Romulan Bird of Prey wasn't capable of FTL speeds.

As I remember, Scotty says their power was 'simple impulse'. That might refer to their power plant rather than their engines.

That said, the cloak would have consumed much of their power anyway, but they were still returning home so it seems reasonable to assume they had low-level warp capability.

Must make note: study TOS to determine this. Need scientific apparatus like popcorn and fizzy drinks.

Well that's tricky. Impulse is usually fusion powered, but that doesn't necessary follow that its incapable of warp drive. I doubt Cochrane's ship in First Contact was using antimatter. It is consistent with a limited fuel supply though. Fusion requires a hell of lot more fuel for the same power output and the BoP is small so . . limited fuel supply just like in the episode.

The BoP doesn't go to warp in the episode, but its under cloak so the power requirements are probably prohibitive. I know that some of the RPGs (not the FASA one) had a separate warp drive module (ala the Star Wars hyperdrive rings) but that sounded lame to me.

[Stofsk]

Well that's tricky. Impulse is usually fusion powered, but that doesn't necessary follow that its incapable of warp drive. I doubt Cochrane's ship in First Contact was using antimatter. It is consistent with a limited fuel supply though. Fusion requires a hell of lot more fuel for the same power output and the BoP is small so . . limited fuel supply just like in the episode.

Well they were under cloak for the entire episode because they realised a Federation ship had been alerted and was out there, so that would explain them not being at warp.

Plus the Enterprise went to emergency warp when the BoP fired on them, which suggests they weren't at warp prior to the plasma torpedo being fired.

The BoP doesn't go to warp in the episode, but its under cloak so the power requirements are probably prohibitive. I know that some of the RPGs (not the FASA one) had a separate warp drive module (ala the Star Wars hyperdrive rings) but that sounded lame to me.

oh god that sounds super lame

[Dark Silver]

Captain's Name: Alvin Thibodeaux
Captain's Species: Human


Ship Name: U.S.S. Heritage (aka U.S.S. Ro Sham Bo) NCC-141180

Ship Class: Hephaestus class Fleet Escort (modified)

Crew composition: 150 Standard, current compliment, 100 (75 human, 2 Vulcans, 3 Andorians, 4 Romulans, 4 Klingons; remainder mixed other races and holograms)

Length: 420m
Beam: 182m
Height: 123m
Mass: 492,000 metric tons

Armament:
Type XII Phaser Array x8
Rapid Fire Phaser Pulse Cannons x4
Type 16 Disruptor Cannons x4
Pulse Fire Quantum Torpedo Launcher x2

Defense:
Regenerative Shield Generators
Duranium/Tritanium Double hull with 10cm of Ablative Armor
High Level Structual Integrity Field

Warp Speed
Normal Cruise: Warp 8 (Actual: Warp 8)
Maximum Cruise: Warp 9.95 (Actual: Warp 9.7)
Maximum Sustained: Warp 9.99 (Actual: Warp 9.93)



Special Systems and other Acquisitions:
**Regenerative Shield Generators
First developed by the Federation for use as a Anti-Borg defense, the Hephaestus class mounts some of the strongest known Regenerative Shield Generators on a ship of it's size, allowing it to take greater punishment than a similar ship.

Edit: (Excerpt from Memory-Beta Wiki)
Regenerative shields, used by the Borg, analyze weapons fire and adjust shield frequencies to better resist oustide forces. Other races have subsequently adopted this technology but presumably have had less success than the Borg, not having the collective's processing power to analyze incoming weapons fire.

**Rapid Fire Phaser Pulse Cannons x4
The same type as mounted on the Defiant-Class and it's variant designs, these weapons are to be mounted in the forward firing arc, and have a limited (35° off center) firing arc. These weapons were found at the remains of the Delphin Shipyards, where Defiant-class ships were under construction. These weapons are being installed while the ship is underway, but so far only the two ventral mounted cannons are online and functional.

**Type 16 Disruptor Cannons x4
Salvaged from a Valdore who was on it's last life support generator and whose crew had all but given up on being rescued, these disruptor cannons are mounted on the Saucer Section of the Heritage. Each cannon has a 35° vertical firing arc, with a Deviation of 35° from center horizontally, and are mounted in the forward firing arc of the ship.

**"Blow back Divertor" System
Enhanced "blow back" preventer in the PTS system allows the ship to sustain hits that would otherwise caused "console blowout" in other ships. This excess energy is usually diverted into the weapons, or into high capacity capacitors buried deep in the hull. This system was designed and installed by the crew of the Heritage and may not be as versatile or as efficient as one come up by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers.


Ship's Weakness:
**Power Generation
Despite the Hephaestus-class being a Heavy Fleet Escort - nearly a Cruiser really - the ship was never designed to carry the firepower it currently bears. The Power Conduits, for instance, were never meant to draw the sort of power needed to power the Type 16 Disruptor cannons - or worse yet, never meant to power Sovereign-class mounted Shield Generators. While one or two of these systems wouldn't be a strain on the Heritage's Warp Core on their own, at full battle alert, sections of the ship dubbed "non-mission critical" HAVE to be shut down or the weapons, or worse yet, the shields themselves, will not have the power necessary to work properly - if at all.

**Power Conduit Substandard
As with the Power Generation of the Heritage, the Power Transfer Conduits of the ship were never meant to transfer the massive amounts of power the ship requires for it's "enhanced" weapons systems. As such, the conduits must be constantly checked and repaired on the threat of them blowing out from overuse - especially when taking damage in battle. This was the primary reason for the development and deployment by the crew of the "Blow back Divertor System".

Severely Under-crewed
Normally, the Hephaestus-class is meant to operate with a standard crew of one hundred and fifty, along with it's holographic crew and system automation. As it stands, the ship is down to one hundred living crew members, and it's compliment of holographic crew is limited to "at need" deployment due to power concerns and wear being placed on the main computer core. This can hamper the ships effectiveness in a "surprise" engagement.

**Back up Computer Cores
Because it works understaffed, and there is a increased reliance on the ships automation, the Heritage's tertiary computer core failed sometime ago, and the secondary computer core has been working double time to keep up with the demands that the Main Computer Core cannot keep up with. Should the main or secondary computer cores fail, the Heritage will be in a...sorry position, at the very least.

**Fire Control Malfunction
the Hephaestus-Class were the cream of the crop at the time of their deployment, utilizing the best in Federation technology. The Heritage, though, doesn't use just Federation technology anymore. Due to the number of Romulan weapons on the ship, and the already taxed nature of the ships computer systems, fire control of the Disruptors and beams are not always guaranteed. The ship's computer sometimes "misplaces" the fire control sequences in main memory, and they have to be drawn up from protected storage - which takes time the ship may not always have. This may also have something to do with the quick and "dirty" way the Disruptors were integrated with the ship itself, and would require a proper shipyard and several weeks of downtime for the problem to hope to be repaired.

**Reduced Torpedo Capacity
The Hephaestus Class was originally designed to carry a loud out of 290 quantum or photon torpedoes. Due to the extensive field modifications and bolt-on heavy weapons, the Heritage does not have the ability or room for that many torpedoes anymore, barely a third of the "full compliment" can be aboard ship at any one time.


**The Alpha-striker
Due to the additional weapons all being prominent in the forward firing arc of the Heritage, the ship's greatest firepower can only be brought to bear in the forward sections, leaving the Flanks and Aft sections of the ship relatively under defended by comparison. Despite it's agile nature, the Heritage would still take time to turn to bring it's strongest weapons to bear on a target who is flanking it, or coming up from behind.


Service history to-date:
U.S.S. Heritage Commissioned 2387 given to the command of Captain Alvin Thibodeaux.

Ship assigned to standard exploration and defense duties until initial start of the Borg War.

Was under assignment in the Typhon Expanse at the time of the Battle of Earth, engaging a Borg scouting squad with members of the 5th Taskforce

Playing a running game of "Tag" with the Borg ever since, scrounging parts and helping out where they could.


Due to the long, and mostly lonely time spent on the ship, many of the crew have formed attachments of various sorts with one another, some as a extended family (of sorts) and some to engaging in various relationships. At first, these relationships were secretive as possible on a ship of less than 100 crew members, but when it was discovered the First Officer and the Captain were regularly sharing their quarters, and seen out and about on the ship, the "open secret" just became open. There is a marked lack of formality on the ship when the crew is amongst themselves, with the obliteration of the Federation and most of the known Alpha Quadrant powers, the crew and Captain no longer feel the need to hold so tightly to Star Fleet protocol as they did in the past. Due to the decidedly, modified nature of the Heritage and the amount of power packed into the relatively small ship, the crew have adopted a new name they use jokingly amongst themselves, and rarely ever share with outsiders.

As Lt Commander Cumpston has put it (he was the one who came up with the new name), "We call her the U.S.S. Ro Sham Bo because when she comes up on you, it's like you just took a swift kick in the nuts. And that's the way uh huh uh huh, we like it"



Notable Crew:
Captain: Alvin Thibodeaux (Human, Male)
Born on the planet New Acadia in the Arcadian System, Alvin attended Starfleet Academy and graduated in the top Third of his Class. His first posting as Helmsmen on the U.S.S. New Orleans, the pathfinder ship to the New Orleans-Class Fleet Escort/Frigate (a sister class to the Nebula and Galaxy class starships). He served with distinction as helmsman, working his way up the rankings until the Dominion War, where he found himself as the First Officer of the U.S.S. Adelphi, an Ambassador class cruiser. A direct hit to the Adelphi's bridge during the Battle of Chin'toka took the ship down, killing several of the Bridge rew. Many managed to evacuate the ship before it's ultimate destruction. After the Dominion War, Thibodeaux applied for and was granted a transfer to the Fleet Yards at Acadia - his home system. He assisted in the preliminary design work for the Prometheus class Starship, and later the Hephaestus class variant. When the USS Heritage was built, He petitioned for the C/O position of the ship, and was granted it. He is in a relationship with his First Officer, Commander Nancie Decoursey, and the bridge crew constantly wonder when the two of them will finally wed.

Captain Thibodeaux is 6'2" tall, with close cropped black hair, a long flat nose, thin lips, and a jovial demeanor.


First Officer: Commander Nancie Decoursey (Human, Female)
Born on Earth, in the state of Pennsylvania, Commander Nancie Decoursey is the First Officer of the Heritage. She is a capable and level headed woman, who is skilled at management of the crew and the limited resources available to them. She is approximately 5'6", with long brown, almond shaped green eyes, and lovely, is a bit stern at times, features.


Chief Medical Officer: Lt Commander Holly Kaiser (Human, Female)
Born on the New Berlin colony, Lt Commander Kaiser attended medical school on Bretania IV before transferring to Star Fleet Medical and working her way through the Academy and Medical school on Earth. She serves as Chief Medical Officer, assisted by the ship's EMH when something goes beyond her keen, and enjoys a relationship with the Chief Tactical Officer, Lt Commander Ryan Cumpston. Lt Commander Kaiser is approximately 5'3" tall, with blond hair, brown eyes, and a almost perpetually cheerful disposition.


Chief ofSecurity/Tactical Officer: Lt Commander Ryan Cumpston (Human, Male)
Also born on the New Berlin Colony, Lt Commander Cumpston joined Star Fleet academy to see the stars. While in the Academy, he found he liked to see things go boom. And as such, he found himself on the fast track to Tactical. He served on several ships, starting off as a security officer on the U.S.S. Reliant, eventually managing to obtain the position of Tactical Officer on the Heritage. Cumpston is 6' tall, with sandy blond hair, a wide cheerful face, a overt fondness for the late 20th and early 21st century culture and entertainment.

Chief Engineer: Lt Commander Joos'an Son of Krang (Klingon, Male)
Born on the Klingon Colony world of Qos'tunk, Joos'an had a chance to go to the Klingon Imperial Academy to study Engineering, but instead, chose to apply for, and attend Star Fleet Academy when he turned of age. He graduated in the top 5% of his class, and went to work for the Cochrane Institute under a Star Fleet charter, working on the Warp Engine design for the Hephaestus-class ships. He applied to Captain Thibodeaux for a berth onthe ship as soon as it was ready, for while he enjoyed his work at the Cochrane institute, he wanted to be amongst the stars. Thibodeaux couldn't pass up the chance to have one of the Engineers who helped design the ship on his team, and granted the berth, and assigned Joos'an a place on the Engineering team under, the then Chief Engineer Lt Commander Thomas Wright. With the death of Lt Commander Wright in a assault upon a Borg Scout ship, Joos'an was granted the role of Chief Engineer, for his skill with the ships systems (the idea and detail work of getting the Romulan and Dominion beam weapons to work with the ship came about as part of his ingenuity).

[Dark Silver]

on a side note, if this is to much, or unworkable...

I'll just go with my "Missile Boat Akira" concept.

(rip out the flight deck, turn it into a Torpedo production facility....spam torpedoes)

[Marcao]

Here is my two cents. I am cool with you having a Prometheus analog since it is a beautiful ship to look at. I also would prefer not to have multiple ships of the same class and we already have an Akira quasi-missile boat in game. However, I think you jumped the shark with your current armament.

Armament:
Type XII Phaser Array x18
Rapid Fire Phaser Pulse Cannons x4
Type 16 Disruptor Cannons x4
Pulse Fire Quantum Torpedo Launcher x2

This is more beams than a Sovereign + the secondary disruptor cannon armament of the S'harien + the primary firepower of a Defiant class.

That does seem a bit much no? Especially for a ship that seems to have the best shield tanking capability in the game so far. How do you justify this?

Thanks,
Marcao

Update: Tweaks are occurring. woot. :)

[General Havoc]

We've already got quite a few Missile Boats, including an Akira. Let me start from the back.

First off, Fisher, I need a finnalized design from you prior to continued posting in IC. There's a danger of retcon if you don't.

Second, Tev, Hotfoot and I talked it over last night, and I can see you modifying between 3 and 5 fighters with cloaking devices. However, cloaks are power hogs as well as huge, so you would have to be using specially downsized cloaks for these things. I will therefore allow the cloaked bombers under the stipulation that they have no phaser armament and no warp capacity. Moreover, you will not be able to construct new ones by yourself, as your ship will not have the necessary manufacturing nor technical facilities to construct miniaturized cloaks.

And yes, I know that they managed to make self-replicating cloaked mines in DS9. This is not the first, nor the last time, that you will see me looking at a point of cannon and pretending it does not exist. Wizards did it.

Thirdly, Hadrianvs, you are welcome to come in using a Kzinti or any other damn thing. However while I'm not about to debate the canonicity of TAS characters, be advised that I know nothing of the Animated series, and thus have no idea what the Kzinti even are, beyond the fact that they are giant space-tigers. As such, I will require more detail from you than I will from everyone else as to what your ship and crew are and are not capable of.

Fourthly, I would like to state for the record that you guys have a hell of an actual fleet being assembled here. Much more potent than I had anticipated. This is a good thing :)

Fifthly, before I get into the details of DS' post, I do want to stress this:

We all know that Star Trek's physics are both horribly broken and terribly inconsistent. In TOS, the combat mostly happens at warp speed and enormous ranges. In TNG and DS9, it happens at knife-close ranges at sub-light speed. In neither case does the notion fully make sense with stated figures.

Now, unraveling this mess is fine. I'll be coming up with guidelines for how I interpret it in just a bit here. I don't mind a good debate on the physics, nor creative uses thereof, but I want to stress this very strongly. This game is not a venue for you to demonstrate how broken Star Trek's physics is by applying out-of-canon physics to completely break the entire system.

For example, I know that in reality, a torpedo of any type moving faster than light speed striking a target also moving faster than light speed would probably destroy the entire solar system that the impact occurred in. In this game however, a photon torpedo striking a ship under "normal" conditions will have the approximate effect that it "normally" has in most renditions of the Star Trek canon.

I'm not trying to say you can't get creative with how you fight or deal with things, that's fine. But I'm not, for instance, going to countenance someone coming up with "I use time dilation from relativity to render my ship functionally indestructible or to instantly obliterate the entire Borg Armada because that's how it would work in real life." This is not real life, it is Star Trek, and I want everyone on the same page in that regard. By all means, bring real world physics into the game. I'll be doing the same thing to the extent I can. If it's creative, it might even provide a major advantage. But real world physics must and will take a backseat to storytelling and balance in this game.

The solutions to the problems I present you may be hidden, or cryptic, or require lateral thinking, or even be things I've never even thought of, but they will never be some crack in the broken edifice of Star Trek physics. And using those cracks as a defense for power-gaming will get you nowhere.

Now then, as I'm sure everyone already knew all that, let me read over DS' offerings and the debate concerning speeds and ranges for weapons, and we'll see where we can go.

[Dark Silver]

I also justify the firepower by saying if I go all out and shoot everything on my forward firing arcs at one time, or even if I shoot close to everything, I'll overload my PTS and kill my shields, leaving me wide open to get gutted.

[Hotfoot]

"Gutted" is perhaps a bit strong given the armor, but it will hurt. The big question is how many of the guns can you fire at once before the shields go out?

[Dark Silver]

I'd leave that up to Havoc to decide, I'd say, personally, if the Heritage shoots off more than 2/3 of it's fore-firing weapons at once, the shields take a crap on themselves and have to recycle for a few moments while the shields, reset, and if I fire off more than that, the shields stay down for a longer period of time while the shield generators repower and recycle themselves.

A full on Alpha Strike should only be attempted by the Heritage when it's pretty sure it'll be able to take the opponent out, and it won't take some hits from other enemy vessels.

[rhoenix]

As to to the "launching torps at warp" topic, I did want to make the physics of what I'm considering clear.

Due to how FTL occurs in Trek, the speed at which an object moves in FTL is not the same as its potential energy. Ergo, the torp drops out of warp, and is travelling the same speed it would if it were not at warp, even upon impact.

And for the record, that was the other reason I wanted to later on find a way to modify the Cometfall on my ship to fire torps at that speed. Not for the added boom, since it wouldn't matter much - mainly just because torps have guidance systems.

I fully know that if the target saw it coming, they'd move. It'd be like a Boondocks moment.

"I saw piss coming, I move. You saw piss coming, and you stayed."

The Borg or anyone else with even the slightest sense of self-preservation (or even a sense of irony) would dodge said torpedo at all possible speed. And that's actually what I'm planning - a form of "herding" a target with torps while at warp. It wouldn't work well in fleet battles, sure, but against single targets? Heh.

[frigidmagi]

I got some links for the Kzin if you want Havoc, Hadri will you be using anything from the Man-Kzin Wars or sticking completely to TAS/Starfleet battles?

Also DS... Given alot of what we saw in DS-9 and TNG (Yar and Data, Riker and Troi, Worf and Troi, Worf and Jadzia, Miles and Keiko, Bashir and Ezri) I have to say it's likely that Stafleet either

A: Has very lax rules on fraternization

B: Has no rules on fraternization

C: Has very rules but they're widely ignored because... Hell we're on this boat for fucking years at a time, fuck you come over here and make us follow the damn rules.

The current military rules are you can date and sleep with someone, as long as he or she is outside your chain of command. If I as a Marine Cpl wanted to bang boots with a pretty Army pvt, or a PFC in another unit no biggie. Hell banging an officer is no problem as long as we're not in the chain of command (although heavily discouraged). The Navy seems to discourage shipmates from well... mating, but has no problem with folks from other ships dancing in the horizontal mode. Although I'm pretty sure they turn blind eyes to people shagging as long as they're from different departments. I would say that an officer on a ship banging one of the crew (read enlisted) is likely a no-no.

[Cynical Cat]

The big thing to remember about Trek warp drive is that due to the warp field "cheating" velocity doesn't directly translate into KE as in normal space. And while a lot of TNG era space fights occurred at knife fight ranges because having both ships on screen a the same time "looked cool" some engagements still happened at TOS type ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers.

Now on to DS

Your weaknesses are essentially:

"I'm maneuverable with most of my guns forward." That's not a weakness, that's a weapon placement choice.

and

"When I do combat I can only do combat." Not much of a weakness.

"Several of my systems are more vulnerable to damage, but I have the best shields and armour in the game and I have special system to minimize incoming hits and feed that energy to my guns." This isn't a weakness. This is "for the first 90% of damage, I'm twice at tough as the average guy, but for the last 10% I'm half as tough."

On top of this you have the best shields in the game and an arsenal of heavy beam weapons. Pulse phasers, Type XIsI, and Valdore disruptors all on a relatively small hull and the toughest ship in the fleet.

Lastly, you have no battle damage.