I'll be fine.General Havoc wrote:I hate to scare CT off prematurely, but I'd want to reprise my Neo-Roman Empire.
This makes the question of the Ottomans somewhat problematic I'm afraid.
New STGOD Ruleset
Moderator: B4UTRUST
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Comrade Tortoise
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#51
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
#52
I think he mistook you for Klavo.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
#53
Added a couple of items to the rules I'd neglected. Open to comments.
Trade:
Nations trade with one another on a common day to day basis in this time period. The world economy was globalized to an extent not equaled until after WWII. In-game trade is primarily done in the background; one's National Resources rating indicating generally how much one must import to make your industries function. Note that such resources are kept abstract to avoid an overly-complex mechanism with many values to track; one nation might need to import iron for its industries while it has plenty of copper, the second has a deficiency of copper but more than enough iron, but for sake of simplified mechanisms this is kept abstract in the Self-Sufficiency Percentage defined by National Resource scores.
In game governments can also engage in mutual trade agreements. A nation with surplus cash can give that cash to a nation with surplus industrial capacity to build things for said nation, such as weapons to raise an infantry division or warships. It can also purchase existing naval ships or divisions at prices the players will be left open to determine - in the case of purchasing divisions it is presumed you are buying the equipment of a standing division, you must outfit it yourself and apply the manpower with an appropriate training period for the kind of unit you've bought to come into service (The advantage is that it costs no IBPs for either side, as it uses a pre-built division) - the seller gets to return the manpower of his sold unit into his nation. Sold naval vessels, OTOH, are presumed to take a quarter to transfer and a second quarter for the purchaser to raise and assign crew.
Government-arranged trade deals are considered broken up if one side is subjected to an effective blockade.
Blockades:
Naval blockades were a key issue of the period, especially as their legality shifted about.
In a conventional blockade, a nation assigns ships off a port (or ports) of a nation and refuses to permit any ship to transit through the blockade. However, in this era of mines, submarines, and coastal forts with long-ranged guns, such blockades become dangerous for the blockader. Many navies are thus able to consider blockade by other means, whether it is declaring a full blockade and maintaining open ocean patrols with ships to intercept shipping heading toward their enemy's ports or other such means of "long distance blockades", using submersible vessels to enforce blockade at a distance and sink enemy shipping (the German strategy in WWI, with or without unrestricted sub warfare), or laying minefields in narrow bodies of water to prevent shipping (the British, in WWI, laid minefields across the North Sea and the English Channel to limit shipping to Germany). They can even restrict exports to neutrals if they have reason to believe the neutrals are aiding the enemy by providing them surplus from their own imports (again, see Britain's behavior in WWI, restricting exports to Denmark, Holland, and other neutrals to prevent goods from getting to Germany).
In game any of these blockade approaches can be attempted. All have some form of risk - conventional blockading opens your fleet to easier attack, if it's even feasible to blockade all a country's ports with your forces, while other blockades might anger neutrals and even lead to incidents giving them casus belli against you. Regarding limits in exports to neutral countries suspected of aiding an enemy in circumventing the blockade, the neutral nation so restricted may experience some slight loss in IBPs and/or cash (To reflect being unable to export as much), the blockading nation may also be docked cash to reflect restricting their own exports to the neutrals. Either possibility will be determined by the mods.
The benefit to a functioning blockade is that it cuts off a nation from external trade and contact with colonies, effecting both their ability to move troops and their ability to export and import materials and goods. If a blockade is in place and is judged as functioning (effective in other words) then the nation being blockaded has its National Self-Sufficiency score, derived from National Resources, applied to its economy and industrial output. To use an example, if a nation with an NR score of 4 (Self-Sufficiency is 70%), an Economy score of 3 (600 cash/quarter), and a 4 in Industry (400 IBP capacity/quarter) is subjected to an effective blockade, its quarterly income drops to 420 cash and its IBP capacity is reduced to 280 IBPs/quarter - that is, 70% of their normal incomes. This shows what the country can sustain in its homeland by itself.
The mods may modify this further downward if you have a nation that spans home territories across short bodies of water (an Indonesian nation, or a Caribbean one, for instance) and the other side can effectively blockade your internal waters as well (the equivalent of isolating, say, Cuba from Hispaniola).
Trade:
Nations trade with one another on a common day to day basis in this time period. The world economy was globalized to an extent not equaled until after WWII. In-game trade is primarily done in the background; one's National Resources rating indicating generally how much one must import to make your industries function. Note that such resources are kept abstract to avoid an overly-complex mechanism with many values to track; one nation might need to import iron for its industries while it has plenty of copper, the second has a deficiency of copper but more than enough iron, but for sake of simplified mechanisms this is kept abstract in the Self-Sufficiency Percentage defined by National Resource scores.
In game governments can also engage in mutual trade agreements. A nation with surplus cash can give that cash to a nation with surplus industrial capacity to build things for said nation, such as weapons to raise an infantry division or warships. It can also purchase existing naval ships or divisions at prices the players will be left open to determine - in the case of purchasing divisions it is presumed you are buying the equipment of a standing division, you must outfit it yourself and apply the manpower with an appropriate training period for the kind of unit you've bought to come into service (The advantage is that it costs no IBPs for either side, as it uses a pre-built division) - the seller gets to return the manpower of his sold unit into his nation. Sold naval vessels, OTOH, are presumed to take a quarter to transfer and a second quarter for the purchaser to raise and assign crew.
Government-arranged trade deals are considered broken up if one side is subjected to an effective blockade.
Blockades:
Naval blockades were a key issue of the period, especially as their legality shifted about.
In a conventional blockade, a nation assigns ships off a port (or ports) of a nation and refuses to permit any ship to transit through the blockade. However, in this era of mines, submarines, and coastal forts with long-ranged guns, such blockades become dangerous for the blockader. Many navies are thus able to consider blockade by other means, whether it is declaring a full blockade and maintaining open ocean patrols with ships to intercept shipping heading toward their enemy's ports or other such means of "long distance blockades", using submersible vessels to enforce blockade at a distance and sink enemy shipping (the German strategy in WWI, with or without unrestricted sub warfare), or laying minefields in narrow bodies of water to prevent shipping (the British, in WWI, laid minefields across the North Sea and the English Channel to limit shipping to Germany). They can even restrict exports to neutrals if they have reason to believe the neutrals are aiding the enemy by providing them surplus from their own imports (again, see Britain's behavior in WWI, restricting exports to Denmark, Holland, and other neutrals to prevent goods from getting to Germany).
In game any of these blockade approaches can be attempted. All have some form of risk - conventional blockading opens your fleet to easier attack, if it's even feasible to blockade all a country's ports with your forces, while other blockades might anger neutrals and even lead to incidents giving them casus belli against you. Regarding limits in exports to neutral countries suspected of aiding an enemy in circumventing the blockade, the neutral nation so restricted may experience some slight loss in IBPs and/or cash (To reflect being unable to export as much), the blockading nation may also be docked cash to reflect restricting their own exports to the neutrals. Either possibility will be determined by the mods.
The benefit to a functioning blockade is that it cuts off a nation from external trade and contact with colonies, effecting both their ability to move troops and their ability to export and import materials and goods. If a blockade is in place and is judged as functioning (effective in other words) then the nation being blockaded has its National Self-Sufficiency score, derived from National Resources, applied to its economy and industrial output. To use an example, if a nation with an NR score of 4 (Self-Sufficiency is 70%), an Economy score of 3 (600 cash/quarter), and a 4 in Industry (400 IBP capacity/quarter) is subjected to an effective blockade, its quarterly income drops to 420 cash and its IBP capacity is reduced to 280 IBPs/quarter - that is, 70% of their normal incomes. This shows what the country can sustain in its homeland by itself.
The mods may modify this further downward if you have a nation that spans home territories across short bodies of water (an Indonesian nation, or a Caribbean one, for instance) and the other side can effectively blockade your internal waters as well (the equivalent of isolating, say, Cuba from Hispaniola).
Last edited by Steve on Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
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General Havoc
- Mr. Party-Killbot
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- Contact:
#54
I'll be taking on the Mediterranean basin. Italy, Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania the Levant, Palestine, Egypt, the North African coast, Aragon, Provence, Dalmatia, and the Islands of the Med. I'll also snag my colonies from last time. Cuba, Jamaica, the Azores, and the Canaries.
Rome will be a GP, and her SOIs will be the Caribbean, Franco-Iberia, and the Balkans.
Rome will be a GP, and her SOIs will be the Caribbean, Franco-Iberia, and the Balkans.
Er... not quite. I was referencing the events of the last game wherein CT was playing as Germany and I as Rome.Steve wrote:I think he mistook you for Klavo.
Last edited by General Havoc on Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Gaze upon my works, ye mighty, and despair...
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."
Havoc: "So basically if you side against him, he summons Cthulu."
Hotfoot: "Yes, which is reasonable."
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frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
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- Location: Alone and unafraid
#55
I'm playing in North America as well. I'll be claiming a regional power.
This is very, very rough map of both my claims and my limited understanding of Charon's. My holdings are in red and Charon's in blue. My own state is a mixed racial state of whites and Indians.
This is very, very rough map of both my claims and my limited understanding of Charon's. My holdings are in red and Charon's in blue. My own state is a mixed racial state of whites and Indians.
Last edited by frigidmagi on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#57
I figured you'd claim more of Montana and Wyoming, also at least some of Saskatchewan.frigidmagi wrote:I'm playing in North America as well. I'll be claiming a regional power.
This is very, very rough map of both my claims and my limited understanding of Charon's. My holdings are in red and Charon's in blue. My own state is a mixed racial state of whites and Indians.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
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frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
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- Location: Alone and unafraid
#58
I really don't see the point.I figured you'd claim more of Montana and Wyoming, also at least some of Saskatchewan.
I have an industrial center and the farmland to feed it and water sources for the farm land. Why do I need to claim empty stretches of snow choked land when I already have the Dakotas? Not to mention I don't wish to be tasked with defending that in addition to my already long borders.
Seriously just because land is there doesn't mean you should rush off to claim it.
Also, Pacifica again?
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#59
Here's an image of my projected holdings, including colonies.
Moderator of Philosophy and Theology
#60
Yeah. I didn't quite get to enjoy it last time.frigidmagi wrote:I really don't see the point.I figured you'd claim more of Montana and Wyoming, also at least some of Saskatchewan.
I have an industrial center and the farmland to feed it and water sources for the farm land. Why do I need to claim empty stretches of snow choked land when I already have the Dakotas? Not to mention I don't wish to be tasked with defending that in addition to my already long borders.
Seriously just because land is there doesn't mean you should rush off to claim it.
Also, Pacifica again?
Well, you and I should discuss what's in the mid-region. Maybe some kind of settler republic that neither of us want to see absorbed (buffer state and such). I'm honestly large enough as it is anyway.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
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frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
- 19
- Location: Alone and unafraid
#61
Fair enough. Next game I'm gonna demand you play something else though.Yeah. I didn't quite get to enjoy it last time. Razz
Let's wait and see if anyone claims it. Maybe someone will want it has a northern Deseret.Well, you and I should discuss what's in the mid-region. Maybe some kind of settler republic that neither of us want to see absorbed (buffer state and such). I'm honestly large enough as it is anyway.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#62
Alt Deseret? Since I own Utah.frigidmagi wrote:Fair enough. Next game I'm gonna demand you play something else though.Yeah. I didn't quite get to enjoy it last time. Razz
Let's wait and see if anyone claims it. Maybe someone will want it has a northern Deseret.Well, you and I should discuss what's in the mid-region. Maybe some kind of settler republic that neither of us want to see absorbed (buffer state and such). I'm honestly large enough as it is anyway.
And I fully intend to enjoy the services of His Lordship John Moses Browning, Earl of Ogden.
BTW< what color do you want to be on the map?
Last edited by Steve on Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
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frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
- 19
- Location: Alone and unafraid
#63
I'm red of course.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#64
Wa
The Empire of Wa is located in East Asia. It's homeland consists of both a massive volcanic island chain, as well as a mountainous peninsula. It is ruled by a Emperor, who considers himself equal in stature to the Emperor of China. The name literally means harmony or peace, which is in drastic contrast to it's wartorn history. It is currently considered to be a great power.
Points:
Population
3 - 50 million
National Resources
5 - National Self-Sufficiency is 80%
Colonial Territory (Automatic 3)
3 - 150 Colony Points, +10 million population, 300/600 Colonial Army Points, 100 cash/quarter (Requires Navy/Army 3)
Industry
5 - 500 IBPs/quarter (requires National Resources 3)
Economy
5 - 4 years of war mobilization, 900 cash points/quarter.
Infrastructure
3 - 4 weeks to mobilize Ready Reserve, 4 months to mobilize Second Line
Navy Power
5 - 2000 Navy Points, 12 Dreadnoughts/Battlecruisers permitted
Army Size
4 - 3000 Army Points
60 million population
$1000, 500 IBP/qtr
Territorial Claims:
Home Territory:
Japan
Korea
Colonial Territory:
150pts
Inner Manchuria - 65pt.
Primorsk - 10pt.
Sakhalin - 5pt.
Taiwan - 15pt.
Ryukyus - 5pt.
Kuriles - 3pt.
Mindanao - 15pt.
Celebes - 20pt.
Bonins - 2pt.
Moluccas - 8pt.
Kiribati Islands - pt.
The Empire of Wa is located in East Asia. It's homeland consists of both a massive volcanic island chain, as well as a mountainous peninsula. It is ruled by a Emperor, who considers himself equal in stature to the Emperor of China. The name literally means harmony or peace, which is in drastic contrast to it's wartorn history. It is currently considered to be a great power.
Points:
Population
3 - 50 million
National Resources
5 - National Self-Sufficiency is 80%
Colonial Territory (Automatic 3)
3 - 150 Colony Points, +10 million population, 300/600 Colonial Army Points, 100 cash/quarter (Requires Navy/Army 3)
Industry
5 - 500 IBPs/quarter (requires National Resources 3)
Economy
5 - 4 years of war mobilization, 900 cash points/quarter.
Infrastructure
3 - 4 weeks to mobilize Ready Reserve, 4 months to mobilize Second Line
Navy Power
5 - 2000 Navy Points, 12 Dreadnoughts/Battlecruisers permitted
Army Size
4 - 3000 Army Points
60 million population
$1000, 500 IBP/qtr
Territorial Claims:
Home Territory:
Japan
Korea
Colonial Territory:
150pts
Inner Manchuria - 65pt.
Primorsk - 10pt.
Sakhalin - 5pt.
Taiwan - 15pt.
Ryukyus - 5pt.
Kuriles - 3pt.
Mindanao - 15pt.
Celebes - 20pt.
Bonins - 2pt.
Moluccas - 8pt.
Kiribati Islands - pt.
Last edited by Beowulf on Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
#65
Last edited by Steve on Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
-
Comrade Tortoise
- Exemplar
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- Contact:
#66
You know.... if no one wants all the space, I will also take the remainder of austria-hungary circa 1914. So hungary, a lot of the balkans, S. poland etc.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
-
frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
- 19
- Location: Alone and unafraid
#67
Desi wanted a Vietnamese Empire if I remember correctly.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#68
I know, magi, waiting for her to give me the extent of the holdings.
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
#69
And this is why you'll never be good for playing Russia.frigidmagi wrote:Seriously just because land is there doesn't mean you should rush off to claim it.
God dammit, and here I was thinking, "Should pick a nation, if I'm going to play Russia I don't want anybody claiming my land before I do." And then BAM! there you are.Beowulf wrote:Colonial Territory:
150pts
Inner Manchuria - 65pt.
Primorsk - 10pt.
Sakhalin - 5pt.
Taiwan - 15pt.
Ryukyus - 5pt.
Hainan - 10pt.
Kuriles - 3pt.
Mindanao - 15pt.
Celebes - 20pt.
Bonins - 2pt.
#70
I thought you were playing Russia?! I even colored it in, minimally (haven't marked in Ukraine yet).
Chatniks on the (nonexistant) risks of the Large Hadron Collector:
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
"The chance of Shep talking his way into the control room for an ICBM is probably higher than that." - Seth
"Come on, who wouldn't trade a few dozen square miles of French countryside for Warp 3.5?" - Marina
-
frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
- 19
- Location: Alone and unafraid
#73
Since I prefer effectiveness over size I take that as a compliant!And this is why you'll never be good for playing Russia.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
#74
You may still want to take the Lower Mississippi Valley, as is you've got no coast. Or rather, you have no coast that is dependent upon canals controlled by someone else.frigidmagi wrote:Since I prefer effectiveness over size I take that as a compliant!
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frigidmagi
- Dragon Death-Marine General
- Posts: 14757
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
- 19
- Location: Alone and unafraid
#75
I am aware thank you. My borders stand.You may still want to take the Lower Mississippi Valley, as is you've got no coast. Or rather, you have no coast that is dependent upon canals controlled by someone else.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken