Transformers: Steel Reign

[General Havoc]

I will not, under any circumstances, countenance being called a shithead and told to fuck myself because I made an objection to someone's play in a game. I made that request no fewer than six times of Cynical Cat in three or four different ways, and was ignored. I asked politely, and now I am no longer asking, politely or otherwise. You can swear all you like towards me or others, but I specifically asked Cynical Cat to desist, he ignored me, and I can't fathom why other than the fact that he feels justified to ignore polite requests to keep the conversation between us civil.

Well that's his prerogative. Mine is to consider him precisely what he makes himself out to be.

[Charon]

Yes, I autoed those hits.

I did it because I was sick and tired of having what should have been hits called misses and hit that should have been severe doing minor damage. I did it because Sixshot made himself and easy target and I having a fucking powerful gun.

So your opinion and yours alone determines what should constitute a hit? Most of us have been hitting our targets. The reason you keep missing, and I can understand that it's frustrating, is that you keep going up against the creme de la creme of the Decepticon forces. Of course they're going to be able to do insane stunts, it's what they're supposed to do. As for your autoing, Shellshock is a far better shot then Deathstrike, and I've never autoed a hit yet, regardless of how frustrated I may be. And for the record, if you were trying to make a point, it's better to talk it out with the other players and the GM before throwing a hissy fit and commiting what is essentially a cardinal sin in an attempt to prove your point.

I'm tired of not having my position considered before I'm declared flanked and my shots called misses. I'm tired of maneuvering when the outcome has already been decided that I miss.

This isn't a pattern that suddenly showed up in this battle, its been here from the first and I'm well passed the point where I can stomach any more of it. Let's look at the ratios for this fight with Sixshot, God amongst Decepticons. You shoot at him, his flight controls get pretty screwy but you miss. He shoots at you, and misses. You try to get missile lock and he does his best (which is better than you, Deathstrike even admited that in his freaking post) to avoid that missile lock. He shoots down Hornet and turns away, you auto your hit and critically damage him.

Damn, yeah, that was totally unfair.

I don't care if Sixshot lives or dies. Hell, when I was talking with DS before making that post I told him to just have Sixshot tear me up instead of magically evading my shots and getting on rear if he wanted to own me.

I do care about reality being bent like a prezel to prevent any name Decepticon from dying.

It is to the point where I am not enjoying the game. Where I don't want to play it.

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm getting really confused here. You, hell, all of us, have kicked the piss out of Decepticons we have no right to be able to fight on a one-one basis (in my case, a two-one against the two greatest gestaults, practically ever). And you're complaining that we can't fucking kill them? If reality is being bent, it's being bent to save our asses. In fact, ask DS any time you fucking want if you had decided to stay and finish off whatever Decepticon you were going up against instead of helping Prime if he'd have done anything to stop you. Just because you aren't getting the fucking kills you want (and I remind you, it's fucking HARD to kill a Transformer. The fuckers can get blown up and be up and walking a day later) is no reason to bitch.

I am making my distaste clear. If DS wants convince me I'm being unreasonable, that's fine. If he wants to boot me, that's fine as well.

A GM calls the shot, but it is every player's right and duty to tell the GM when they feel the game is being ruined. I stand by it. My duty isn't to kiss the GM's ass and as a GM the most important feedback I can get from players is what decisions of mine they hate and feel might be ruining the game.

Charon, you have your answer. The nice version.

Are you suggesting that I'm being a kiss ass to the GM right now? If you are then you're very fucking wrong and I am deeply insulted. In my first post I made it abundently clear that there are things that DS does that I disagree with, and I tell him about them. If I want to do something that I'm not sure of, or he does something that bugs me, I contact him and we work it out like civilized adults. I don't go throwing a tantrum about how much I'm being held back.

I don't give a rats ass about whether or not Sixshot dies. He made himself an easy target and I called hits because Deathstrike is a good shoot, Sixshot had turned his back on me, and Sixshot isn't faster than a laser.

If we're not allowed to kill our enemies, I'm withdrawing from the game.

Uh huh... And as for "Well Deathstrike is a good shot." Shellshock is three times the marksman you are, and you don't see me complaining when I miss.

It's hardly a big deal when done to an NPC. There's an all powerful GM tool where he types and tells a player "you made a bad call, edit to conform to x." I've used it before.

Oh, well since you do it that must mean that ALL GM's do it... Oh wait. No, they don't. Now I, personally, agree with your view that it's a GM's job to go "That post is bad, change it" but you should know by now that DS doesn't do things that way. For all of his bluster and evil laughs he's a soft teddy bear at heart when it comes to being a GM, and you're using that against him to auto your posts.

I do care that it is part of a systematic pattern of the GM preventing NPCs from dying when they should have been killed.

This isn't the first time its been brought up, and not just by me.

My guns and missiles don't kill. Nor do anyone elses.

As I said up there, Transformers are REALLY HARD TO KILL. Almost impossible to kill. It takes more than a "pew pew you're dead" like in Heroes. Hell, there's canonical evidence of 'bots being blown into several pieces and then being put back together again as good as new.

People repeatedly perform poorly in combat in the areas they specialize in.

Tev's energon grenades don't do jack to anyone but PCs. A wounded Chimera wasn't even slowed by them.

Wounded Desepticons escape so they can't be finished off. Continually.

Hornet's missile gets blown out of the air so Blitzwing doesn't take a serious wound.

Oh God, it's called "Shit happens in a battle that makes it so the battle doesn't always go in the favor of the PC's" also known as "The NPC's are just as good as you if not better." Shit happens, attacks miss, get over yourself.

It's about a pattern of the GM handling combat in an unfair manner and ignoring player concerns when we talked to him about it in a much nicer manner.

So I'm not being nice about it. It has reached the point where it is ruining the game for me. So I'm throwing up the big red warning sign and letting the GM know how serious the situation is while it is fixable, instead of after.

Now I know you're full of shit. Every time I have had an issue with damage or accuracy, and I've had a few, again, refer to DS, I talk to him, we work something out that doesn't involve me wiping out a vastly superior bot in one blow, and I move on.

And as far as I can see, you're the only one apparently seeing this 'situation'. Unless someone else is and isn't speaking up.

I will admit that occasionally I have had concerns that run parallel to yours, and I discuss them with DS, (many times, he has let me get away with a lot of things he didn't seem thrilled to let me do, but could see no reason to stop me). I don't demand that the GM bow down to what I think is the way things should be run, and then throw a hissy-fit in game when he tells me I'm wrong.

[Cynical Cat]

Addressing General Havoc:

You have such a vendetta against me your pissed off about me correcting you over the components of an armour piercing missile. I wasn't even nasty about the correction, just letting you know that Cybertronian AP missiles are proton warheads and modern human ones are depleted uranium or tungsten. You want to verbally abuse me, I'll verbally abuse you back.


Addressing Charon:

Yes, my opinion on whether or not I hit matters. The GM makes the call, but a player has every right to complain if he thinks he's been mistreated. I have complained.

Shellshock is not three times the shot that Deathstrike is. He's got a more powerful cannon and he's good with it and the cannon has far more capabilities that Deathstrike's cannon including indirect fire and shifting between solid shot and energy blasts, but a rapid fire x-ray cannon is a better weapon to actually hit someone if firing directly at them. And that's Deathstrike's weapon.

Yes, DS will allow us to win a fight (note that this isn't my complaint), BUT HE WON'T ALLOW US TO FINISH THEM OFF. I do have a fucking problem with my missiles with heavy AP warheads doing jack shit to Chimera even when they hit (and the amount of damage that is dished out in general), but I haven't had any hits with them since that fight and my complaints to Dark Silver so I'm irritated over the initial treatment (okay, more than irritated), but reserving judgment.

Yes, transformers are hard to kill. Except if you watch the movies and the die all over the place.

Yes, Deathstrike has beaten transformers more powerful than him. When they've ignored him or turned their back on him or are busy fighting someone else who is really powerful. And Deathstrike has beaten them by playing to his strengths, which is hitting them like a god damn hammer and paid for it. Have a Seeker do something other than take him head on and Deathstrike will be in trouble in the air and that's not talking about what happens if a real powerhouse actually concentrates on him instead of ignoring him to go beat on Springer.

I don't care that Sixshot in particular survives. I don't care than Thundercracker and Chimera survived. I do care that its looking like I won't be able to kill anyone but scrubs, that even if I play well and jump a name Decepticon (who grossly outnumber of us) and should have the opportunity to kill him, by act of GM he'll live. And every time I've been in position to have a good chance of finishing off someone, there's been an act of GM to finish him off.

I'm not the only one to have a problem. Several of us called Dark Silver on it earlier. I've had a shitty month and a half and I'm not in the mood to play a game under nerf bat conditions. I'm also not going to do some passive-aggressive rumbling and hope the problem gets better. I'm bringing the problem out into the open to try and solve it while the game I'm enjoying on other levels is still salvagable.

I await Dark Silver's answer or players other than General Havoc telling me I'm an asshole and that the game is better off without me.

[LadyTevar]

Cyncat, the game is not better off without you.

However, you were being a munchkin when you auto'd those hits, while taking little to no damage yourself. But you've admitted it, and gone on.

NOW, as for not killing 'named' Decepticons. Well... despite the fact we're PCs, *WE* are not 'named characters'. We can stand around and badmouth StarScream, but we're NOT at his level, and we're NOT the ones who get to punch him so hard it ruptures valves. We can fight triple-changers and Seekers, but all we are there for is to Hold the Line until Optimus and the stronger Autobots can move up and save us.

We're the background, Cyncat. Like the soldiers in Gondor, we're busting our butts to keep the orcs from the gate, but it's Gandalf who scares away the WitchKing when the gate breaks.

Right now, I don't even think we'll get to take the base. Since Overload's sub-orbital, we -may- be sent to distract and harry Chimera and the base he's flying until the Better Fighters can get there.

Will we kill Chimera? Probably not. We may put him down, injure him to the point he'll have to retreat. How's that different from the G-1 Cartoon, when Megatron would retreat screaming "I'll be back, Prime!" every episode? Decepticons will retreat, they don't fight to the bitter end. It's Wolves versus Dogs, Cyncat... a wolf will retreat from strong prey to keep from being badly hurt, while a dog will die to defend his ground.

I'd hate to see DeathStrike leave. I'd hate to see you leave. I'm sorry you've been having a shitty month, but is it really a good excuse for how you're acting now?

[Cynical Cat]

Lady T, with respect, we are the only name characters. We're the players. We don't have the power of Megatron or Optimus but we are the ones that matter most. We are the center.

Bumblebee is a name character, one who gets a fuckload of attention in the cartoon and comics, and a lot of us are stronger than him.

We are the Center of the game. Or its not an RPG.

I'm not asking to be able to take Megatron head to head. Hell, I wrote what happened when Deathstrike over reached and went head to head with Ultra Magnus and that was Deathstrike being lucky enough to withdraw in one piece after giving Magnus a little trouble.

But our actions matter. More than any other transformers. We aren't bystanders. We aren't standing around waiting to "ew and ahh" over Prime's feats. We're the main characters. Shellshock has a huge cannon. I have a high powered gun and nasty missiles. So do Breakout and Stryke. Nitram's a physically powerful triple changer. Crimson has what should be nasty energon grenades. Our weapons hurt. Or they should.

Most of us are veterans of the long war with considerable skill and experience in fighting in our areas of speciality. That should matter. Anyone short of Grimlock being grappled by Nite should be in trouble. A Decepticon being shot by Charon should be hurt or slain (depending on who it is). Crimson's grenades should do a good job of at least temporarily fucking people up. The foes we down shouldn't convienently disappear and avoid being killed, which they've done repeatedly.

I didn't sign up to play Prime's lacky. I signed up to play a PC in an RPG. I can go watch Youtube if I want to watch Prime and Megatron endlessly kick ass. This game should be about our characters.

[LadyTevar]

My grenades aren't -meant- to fuck things up, Cyncat. They're a last-ditch weapon that DS has already reminded more than once I need to play like they're last ditch.

Crimson can do 2 shots without harm to herself. The 3rd leaves her weak. A 4th shot will empty her.

[Cynical Cat]

My grenades aren't -meant- to fuck things up, Cyncat. They're a last-ditch weapon that DS has already reminded more than once I need to play like they're last ditch.

Crimson can do 2 shots without harm to herself. The 3rd leaves her weak. A 4th shot will empty her.

Yes, they are. And for that much energy cost, they should have punch. But it didn't even slow Chimera down after he was wounded.

[General Havoc]

Addressing General Havoc: You have such a vendetta against me your pissed off about me correcting you over the components of an armour piercing missile. I wasn't even nasty about the correction, just letting you know that Cybertronian AP missiles are proton warheads and modern human ones are depleted uranium or tungsten. You want to verbally abuse me, I'll verbally abuse you back.

Re-read what I said in regards to the components of the armor piercing missile. For your edification it was as follows:

Actually, I used mercury purposefully, having heard about anti-tank rounds with hollow tubes inside about half-full of mercury (in liquid form of course). The shell would hit the tank and the kinetic energy would be transfered into the mercury, which would be thrust forward and, despite being liquid, would drill a hole right through the tank's armor, and then either smash a hole in the opposite side of the tank, or fly around inside the tank, destroying everything.

It was a cool idea in concept, however I can't find any actual evidence that it's a real weapon so....

I think Tungsten-core will do nicely, though I really liked the concept of that liquid-cored round. Pity

In short, I explained what I was thinking, and why I had added the mercury in there, admitted that I couldn't find any evidence that the real thing existed, and then accepted the switch to tungsten core, which in the end didn't matter as the missiles themselves were blotted from the sky shortly thereafter. You will notice a distinct absense of the term "shithead" or its cognates in my above post.

But that's not the point.

The point is that you are right to a degree. We ARE the focus of the game, and while I intentionally made my character less powerful than the majority of characters, I did that for effect, and the same restriction is not incumbant on all the PCs. Deathstrike should, in fact, be able to kick ass and take names.

My point, however, is that so far, that's exactly what he's been doing. The fact that Sixshot isn't dead doesn't alter the fact that Deathstrike blew him out of the air with a barrage of firepower, a feat no other Autobot flier save MAYBE Jetfire (I'm not sure about that). I don't begrudge you the ability to do that, especially since DS doesn't appear to. However you KNOW how difficult it is to kill a TF, which is why it happens so often. It is not at all unreasonable to declare that you didn't manage to kill one of the most dangerous Decepticons alive with an offhand shot. Sixshot is as dangerous (arguably) as a gestault. You defeated him. You shot him out of the air, a feat no other Autobot has, to my knowledge, ever performed (yes, you're not an Autobot, you know what I mean). Given that, it makes no sense to throw a fit over Sixshot's lack of actual physical demise.

Hornet is manifestly not supposed to be a match for any Decepticon, but even if he were normal-sized, with normal armor and weapons, I would not expect him to be killing Decepticons with the rapacity you seem to think Deathstrike and everyone else should be. The actual death of a Transformer is, as I am led to understand it, extremely rare (in the grand scheme of things), baring spectacular mismatches such as a casette vs. a combiner.

[Marcao]

I have been tracking this debate as it goes back and forth and I will touch upon a few aspects. The most relevant point that I want to make known is that I agree with Cynical cat on the fundamental level that we the players should be the driving force of the story. I don't expect that Sky Shadow can stand toe to toe with Omega Supreme, Megatron, Chimera and the like. However, I also did not join a game to be considered a peon or background element. If that is the overall core of what this game is supposed to be, then I can only express my sincere disappointment.

I have always believed that the core of a roleplaying game is to play a character that is central to a story in some way shape or form. I am not asking to be a king or even a captain, but I sure as hell expect to be a lieutenant. I want to feel like my character is a mover, and that he/she/it is playing a vital role in the grand stage. I will also point out that like Cynical, there have been situations in game that have occurred that had me questioning the lethality of this game in regards to the decepticons. I am not the only one that has commented on it, go back several pages and you will see people complaining about "wolverine like regeneration" and "the expectation is that our heavy weapons and armor piercing weapons will do just that."

For all the doom and gloom about the situation of the autobots at the end of the day I want to feel like a hero and get some sort of payoff for the time and effort I invest into my "story". This is not to say that I support everything that Cynical has said and done in this thread. However, in this aspect of his argument I whole heartedly support him. If the focus of the story is the Decepticon menance and the player characters are backgrounds elements, then my overall interest in the game will wane. I am working full time at the moment, taking classes on the afternoon/evenings and fulfilling various obligations both in this board and WoW. As of now, I am still committed to continuing Sky Shadow's story. I will be watching this thread very closely.

[Cynical Cat]

General Havoc, I don't expect to kill every Decepticon I down, but I don't expect every single one of them to avoid being killed. Not even necessarily a majority. A consistent and continious pattern of complete escapes, even when the wounded target is getting fired upon two transformers who have a good chance of hitting the target with a weapons that will severely fuck a wounded TF. It is the consistent and total escape from death, especially considering we need to kill about a thousand of them just to get the odds close to even, that is really pissing me off.

In the TV series the lethality is low, but in both movies we see transformers die all over the place. Go Youtube Megatron's shuttle attack. Autobots drop and die when they take a couple of shots by people other than Megatron. Brawn gets not merely dropped, but killed by a hit in the shoulder from Megatron's fusion cannon. Megatron's knick name is "the slag maker." No name transformers die all over Cybertron in the comics. Death happens in universe. A lot.

I expect a weapon described as a powerful laser designed to do a lot of damage on even a well armoured target when I score multiple hits. I expect a single hit from Shellshock's huge evil cannon to do fearsome damage on most transformers. So on and so forth for Breakout and Stryke's big guns and missiles and Sky's ordanance load. I'm not expecting or desiring instant kills, but most TFs should be seriously fucked up if Stryke shoots them twice in the chest with his shoulder cannon.

As for language, there are a thousand ways to verbally abuse someone from calling them a coward or a power gamer to the four letter words you find so distasteful. Which ones are used is a matter of personal taste and circumstance. Once the conversation gets nasty, your opponents will be interested in puncturing your sensabilities, not protecting them.

[General Havoc]

I agree, the lethality rate in this universe varies wildly depending on what materials you are currently viewing. The show itself has next to no casulties, whereas the first TF movie killed a half dozen major Autobots in the first half hour. Of course the reason for that was so as to replace their toy lines with others so as to sell more toys. Casulty rates based on marketting figures make for a difficult sell.

Yes, weapons designed to be lethal should in fact be lethal when properly used, but my point is that, lethal or not, those Decepticons you have engaged HAVE gone down. Alive or dead, Sixshot lost his fight against you quite handily, due to his having made a gross error in judgment in turning to shoot at Hornet while Deathstrike was still in the field. Predaking and Menasor both lost against Breechload in the previous engagement, and Chimera did the same against a number of people, yourself included. I can see where you're coming from with them all having survived to fight another day, but it's not as though your weapons had no effect. You went up against the nastiest, strongest Decepticons in existance, and beat them. It's not too much to expect that you didn't dominate them to the point where you killed them all, particularly in the first engagement of the game (or second in this case).

Yes, Megatron laid Autobots out dead left and right in the movie, but that's Megatron, who, as you said, was known as the "Slagmaker". No-name transformers may well die all over the comics (I'm not very familiar with them) but Transformers the likes of Sixshot do not, unless I miss my guess. Sixshot is not a standard, no-name Transformer, but a being of spectacular power. You blew him out of the sky as though he were Hornet. I would be satisfied with such a result, and even if I were not, Autoing or Power Playing or whatever we call it here is not the solution.

Besides, if the odds are stacked as far against us as you say (and I've no reason to think they aren't), then what really does it matter if Sixshot is or isn't dead? The Decepticons are at no risk of running out of monstrocities to throw at us, and if Sixshot is dead and unavailable for the next battle, then I have no doubt there are about ten thousand other raging mechanical maniacs just as nasty as he is that DS could pull out to make our lives miserable.

This is not a matter of the NPCs being the only ones allowed to kill. We all (Hornet excluded) just finished decimating a small army of human drones, and Shellshock is presently dropping direct artillery fire on the enemy base while Skyshadow bombards them from above. No NPC has made a single significant kill, with the arguable exception of Gridlock, who killed a pair of Autobots so insignificant that I'd never heard of them before (though in fairness, that's not saying much). Megatron has yet to make a kill, neither has Starscream or Chimera or Blitzwing or the combined efforts of Menasor and Predaking, and neither have any of the Autobot NPCs (I exclude Gridlock). If you actually killed Sixshot, your score would exceed all of theirs (in-game that is) by a mile (Sixshot counts for more than a mere average Decepticon, I'd wager).

This is not, as I see it, a matter of the PCs being discriminated against (though I'm sure that's coming). It's simply a matter of TFs (Hornet notwithstanding) being very very hard to actually kill. As Charon pointed out, these things can come back from being blasted to pieces and scattered across a county. I wouldn't expect Sixshot to actually die without significantly more firepower than even that which Deathstrike pumped into him.

[Cynical Cat]

I don't care that Sixshot lived.

I care that despite two very credible finishing shots, he lived. I care that I knew that would be the result before hand because we haven't been allowed to kill anything but weak, no name scrub drones.

As for Megatron, the only guy he's been fighting on screen so to speak has been Optimus Prime and in no version of the franchise is Optimus anything but Megatron's equal. That Dark Silver may also be unwilling to kill name Autobots isn't reassuring. Its part of the same bad trend.

The trend is bad, because it makes the PCs impotent. We're observers of the war, not central participants in our own story. NPCs are the center and whether we win or lose, our actions aren't making a big impact. If we fuck up, it should potentially cost lives. If Deathstrike and Slipstream abandon the battle, Jetfire might be dying because of it.

We're PCs. Our actions should matter. Important transformers should fall to us, whether as individual or a group effort, and our failures should have tragic costs.

[General Havoc]

I certainly agree that our actions should matter, should be the most important factors in fact in determining major outcomes of various battles and such, but we're talking about a specific case. Whether or not important Transformers should fall to us (and yes, they should given the right circumstances), they should not fall to us because we autoed a hit on them to force the GM to kill them outright. When one Autos, then there is no question of success or failure, and one's actions, at least as I see it, should not matter.

I understand that you think this was the only way to actually have an impact, but in speaking of this specific incident, the only reason those two credible finishing shots landed is because you autoed them to land. Given that, I don't think they should result in Sixshot's death.

[LadyTevar]

I see my vision isn't the same as everyone else's. Charon pointed out that we're more like Merry, Pippin, and Samwise; side-characters, but with their own important parts to play in the story.

Well, once Chimera's flyin base emerges over NYC, we'll be in the thick of things, responsible for the lives of everyone, and if we fuck up, it will drop the base on DownTown.

[frigidmagi]

I did not sign up to play a fucking hobbit. If I was signing up for that I would have picked a character with the firepower of bumblebee. I'm with Cat on this.

[Cynical Cat]

I understand that you think this was the only way to actually have an impact, but in speaking of this specific incident, the only reason those two credible finishing shots landed is because you autoed them to land. Given that, I don't think they should result in Sixshot's death.

The only reason I autoed them was because they should have hit.

In a freeform game, the players automatically do stuff and that helps keep a GM's workload managable.

In any game, an essential skill for a GM is to say "no, that didn't happen." Players will overstep, but micromanagement is more work and less player satisfaction. A good balance must be struck, especially so in these freeform forum games, and players will push and sometimes overstep. When that happens the GM steps in. It's an essential skill on the table top, especially when metagaming happens, but its a critical skill in freeform games where players create more of the world.

Frankly, the whole business with Sixshot was poorly handled right after Hornet jumped him. Sixshot then decided to charge Deathstrike head on, a move that plays right to Deathstrike's strengths and a stupid way of engaging a heavily armoured, well armoured fighter with poor maneuverability.

Sixshot improbably avoids taking a hit despite flying head on against Deathstrike and then after getting past Deathstrike, gets on his tail. That last bit is fine. Then he decides to shoot Hornet and ignore Deathstrike. Then he continues to ignore Deathstrike and turns around and flies around practically hanging a "Please shoot me in the back". The whole combat was stupid. Sixshot dodging away from Deathstrike, flanking him, downing him, and then grilling Hornet would make much more sense.

[LadyTevar]

Folks? This is TEVAR's VIEWS, not the views of the GM. So please don't get up in arms about them.

After all, I was viewing Crimson's weapons and armor as pitifully weak until it was pointed out Crimson could take a normal human tank round with only a dent. I had no idea of how powerful Autobots really are compared to human weaponry.

Anyway, can we just say "What's Done is Done" and get on with playing? Please?

[Charon]

To mirror Tevar's statements and everyone else who keeps getting up in arms about "Us not being central characters"

We are. And you really need to stop thinking that Tev's personal views are the grand ruling for this game.

And for the record. I said we were more like Faramir, Gimli, Legolas and all the really powerful guys who play a pivotal part in the story that aren't the uber-big hitters.

[Dark Silver]

Your bitching I've not allowed any Decepticon fatailities, yet I've killed two Autobots no-names.

The big grip seems to be that I'm not letting deaths happen to named characters. This should be noted that I haven't killed any Autobots either, aside from the two no-named faceless hordes.

Blitzwing, Starscream, Thundercracker, Prowl, Hound, Springer, Hot Rod, Optimus Prime, Sixshot, Shockwave - and the other Autobots and Decepticons showcased in the comics and cartoons - your looking at some of the creme of the crop when it comes to the Autobot and Decepticon forces. They are more powerful, sturdier and just quiet frankly, better than any other Cybertronian.

I haven't killed any main characters on either side, the two Autobots who died, where no names I had to give some identity to - so they got random names.

But...instead of this guess work I'm doing now with how damage should work....I'm going to make a very GM decision.

Power levels as of now, go up to as seen in the IDW Generation One Transformers comics. This means Sixshot is a transformer who obliterates entire planets. Shockwave is capable of taking on all five Dinobots at once and coming out with only a few scratches. Megatron can take the hits of the likes of Hardhead, Hound, Wheeljack, Jazz and Prowl at the same time with his armor taking it all.

Everyone gets a relative power increase as well, you scale appropriately, the humans weapons are powerful enough as it stands.



Let me get one thing very straight....

I never said the PC's where sidestories. I never claimed they were the Hobbits of the Fellowship. All of you get off your fucking high horses. As of this point, the GM has removed the nice kid gloves, there will be death, there will be destruction. If you Auto-hit a NPC without talking to me, I will fucking grind your character into a thin watery paste. You don't like how I am taking the game, or want to assume how I'm taking the game without talking to me, get the fuck out. While some of you may have some small info, none of you have the entire picture, or even a fraction of the picture. You know of immediate future events, that's it. Stop assuming you know the story and how to best lead it.

Another thing, Transformers are fucking durable, in order to kill them, you have to hit them perfectly fucking dead on in two places - coring out their cybernetic brains, or obliterating their Spark Chamber/Lasercore. Both of those options aren't exactly easy to do, short of the "cannon fodder" NPC's, I will not have one-shotting done.

As of this moment, I will gladly disreguard your fanfictions for the betterment of this story. Deathstrike, while powerful, will not be two-shotting Guardian Robots or Gestaults. Even Shockwave and Megatron had trouble penetrating Gestault class armor with their energy weapons (infact, neither of them ever has).



As of now, if you dislike my GM decisions, or how I am running the game, you can feel free to leave the game. You go against the GM, and I will feel free to grind your character into a thin watery puddle of metal shavings and mech fluid.

[Cynical Cat]

Your bitching I've not allowed any Decepticon fatailities, yet I've killed two Autobots no-names.

The big grip seems to be that I'm not letting deaths happen to named characters. This should be noted that I haven't killed any Autobots either, aside from the two no-named faceless hordes.

Yes, please kill some from both sides. This is a fucking war.

As for Sixshot and the rest, they are big shots but so are we. We treat Blitzwing, Thundercracker, and the rest as serious threats and if they don't return the same respect, they're making a mistake we will exploit. I think that's enough on that subject.

Another thing, Transformers are fucking durable, in order to kill them, you have to hit them perfectly fucking dead on in two places - coring out their cybernetic brains, or obliterating their Spark Chamber/Lasercore. Both of those options aren't exactly easy to do, short of the "cannon fodder" NPC's, I will not have one-shotting done.

Except if you're say Megatron and can instantly kill Brawn by shooting him in the shoulder. There's all sorts of inconsistancies in Transformer durability. You don't want one shots (besides when Gridlock shoots Autobots) fine. I'm not asking for easy kills. I'm asking for you not go out of your way to save all of them. Protect your pets (I don't mean this negatively, every GM has pets and some of them are plot necessary), but let us kill.

As of this moment, I will gladly disreguard your fanfictions for the betterment of this story. Deathstrike, while powerful, will not be two-shotting Guardian Robots or Gestaults.

If you actually read them, he never has. Don't strawman my representations. The only one he every killed quickly was already badly damaged and the others required volley after volley of armour piercing missiles and heavy energy weapon fire and usually others' help.

Even Shockwave and Megatron had trouble penetrating Gestault class armor with their energy weapons (infact, neither of them ever has).

Bullshit. Dreamwave, Shockwave shoots through one Guardian and blows a hole in the chest of the one behind it. In the Marvel ones, Megatron downed Predaking solo. Dreamwave again, Prime dropped Devestator with a single close range laser rifle shot to the face. Hell, Prime drops Devestator with his rifle in Devestator's first cartoon appearance.

Gestalts and Guardians do go down and die when you hit them in the right places or hard enough.

Lastly, don't threaten me Dark Silver. It's inappropriate and rather petty and pointless. Every GM has the ability to kill any player any time he wants or eject players he feels that are being a problem. There's no call for threats. I brought up a problem I'm having with the game and told you it was seriously affecting my ability to play it. Your power to run it was never challenged, only that I felt is was so severe that I would withdraw from the game if it wasn't addressed.

[Cynical Cat]

Look, here's where I'm coming from. Three months ago, one of the few games where I'm a player crashed and burned.

It died because of the way the DM was running it, which indulged his pet loves. The way he went about it was . . . . poor. He could have done it differently.

Player complaints, included mine, were mostly muted. The situation got worse and worse and even more ridiculous. It got to the point where people didn't want to play anymore despite a promising initial premise. By that time the DM didn't even like the way he was running.

Keeping quiet with problems doesn't solve the problem, it just means the problem won't be addressed. This wasn't the first time I've seen these kind of problems, but it was one of the worst. I love positive feedback, it feeds my ego. But negative feedback is far more valuable.

A player bringing these kinds of problems forward isn't attacking the GM's authority. He's trying to save the game. I don't do this kind of thing often, but when I do do it, I do it for good reason and not because I get off trying to undermine the GM (which is stupid, because a GM can kick anyone out of the game at anytime).

[Cynical Cat]

Is it wrong that while me and General Havoc don't see eye to eye (to indulge in understatement for a moment), that I find his avatar unbearably cute? I just want to tickle the little guy.

[Dark Silver]

Chibi-Jetfire.

No, it's not wrong. The rest of the Lilformers Avatar Gallery makes you want to do the same thing...even Charon's Fort Max avatar...

[LadyTevar]

Is it wrong that while me and General Havoc don't see eye to eye (to indulge in understatement for a moment), that I find his avatar unbearably cute? I just want to tickle the little guy.

It's not wrong, I have the same reaction.
I'm just waiting for you to find a new Avatar

[B4UTRUST]

My issue is that Chibi-Unicron is just...wrong... wrong is so many ways...