Report: N. Korea fires on S. Korea killing 1 and injuring 15

[The Minx]

Unable to sleep again, I look at CNN and see this:


Link

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea fired artillery toward its tense western sea border with South Korea on Tuesday, killing at least one South Korean soldier, the Yonhap news agency reported.

Two civilians and 13 other South Korean military personnel were injured, with three of the soldiers seriously hurt, Yonhap said.

A Ministry of Defense spokesman contradicted the Yonhap report, saying that no deaths had been confirmed and that the military was checking on possible civilian casualties.

At least 200 rounds of artillery hit an inhabited South Korean island in the Yellow Sea after the North started firing about 2:30 p.m. local time, Yonhap said.

South Korea's military responded with 80 rounds of artillery and deployed fighter jets to counter the fire, the report said.

The South Korean army also raised its alert condition, the report said.

Images of plumes of smoke were quickly broadcast on Yonhap television from the island of Yeonpyeong, with some homes on fire. It was not immediately clear how much damage the artillery had done. The island has a large military garrison.

The island has a total of about 1,300 residents, a fisherman who lives on the island told Yonhap.

Some residents started fleeing for the South Korean mainland, which is about 145 kilometers [90 miles] away. Other residents were seeking shelter at schools.

The South Korean government immediately called an emergency meeting of its security ministers, meeting in a bunker under the presidential residence in Seoul.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak ordered his ministers to take measures against an escalation of the situation, presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung said, according to Yonhap.

"Take a stern response and carefully manage the situation from further escalating," the president said.

The North Korean fire came as the South's military conducted routine drills in waters off the island, which is about 10 kilometers [6 miles] from the North.

The Yellow Sea has been a longstanding flashpoint between the two Koreas, but Tuesday's attack was an escalation in violence.

"Our navy was conducting a maritime exercise near the western sea border today. North Korea has sent a letter of protest over the drill. We're examining a possible link between the protest and the artillery attack," presidential spokeswoman Kim said, according to Yonhap.

The island is part of a small archipelago about 80 kilometers [49 miles] west of the South Korean port of Inchon, which serves Seoul, and is close to the tense Northern Limit Line, the maritime border between the two Koreas in the Yellow Sea.

A South Korean warship, the Cheonan was sunk in the area in March with the loss of 46 lives in a suspected North Korean torpedo attack.

North Korean artillery is extremely difficult to hit, because it is dug into coastal cliffs. Though the North has tested its artillery -- and tested anti-shipping missiles -- it has not fired artillery into South Korean territory in recent years.

One of North Korea's most potent threats is the hundreds of artillery barrels dug in along its demilitarized zone with South Korea and ranged on Seoul.

Yonhap television was covering the attack nonstop in South Korea, forgoing other news Tuesday. Meanwhile, state television in North Korea did not mention the attack.

Golly.

[Dark Silver]

...this is getting stupider and stupider...

How long before war gets declared?

[The Minx]

Technically, the war is still going since fifty years ago. It's just an armistice which is in effect right now.

I have to wonder what they think they're going to accomplish with this, though. That's the usual question whenever stuff like this happens over there.

[Norseman]

They think they are going to act batshit insane untill we fork over more money and other aid. Its worked so far, why change?

[The Cleric]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

[Norseman]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because there's several thousand artillery units waiting to level Seoul?

[frigidmagi]

An Army of 5 million riflemen, a network of tunnels that can resist kiloton level bombing and layered defense that ensures causalities on the level of a World War II. And the fact that we're deeply unsure of what China would do if we invaded North Korea, but we know it wouldn't be good for us.

Do you want to be the President who got thousands of Americans and South Koreans killed in weeks and then have to stand for reelection?

[SirNitram]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because there's several thousand artillery units waiting to level Seoul?

I feel the more important part of that constant threat is that those artillery are loaded with chemical weapons.

[frigidmagi]

I feel the more important part of that constant threat is that those artillery are loaded with chemical weapons.

I honestly wonder about that. Chemical weapons are finicky and need expert handling and special facilities. Not to mention the sheer chance of accident (which won't bother the N Korean government) or the problems of alot of chemical weapons having a limited shelf life...

On the flip side, I don't wonder enough about to want to call the bluff if it is one.

[Derek Thunder]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because the consequences of war mainly fall upon the poor and it would lead to a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st century?

[frigidmagi]

Yonhap news

President Lee Myung-bak ordered his military Tuesday to strike North Korea's missile base around its coastline artillery positions if it shows signs of additional provocation, his spokeswoman said.

In a video conference with Gen. Han Min-koo, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the president ordered "multiple-fold retaliation" against the North for its artillery attack on a South Korean island, according to presidential spokeswoman Kim Hee-jung.

Oh Wow...

Wired

f North Korea’s going to flaunt its new uranium-enrichment facility to the world, South Korea isn’t going to sit back and take it. Seoul is considering a request for the U.S. to return tactical nuclear weapons to the Korean peninsula for the first time in 15 years. Remember when President Obama was going to put the world on a “path to zeroâ€

[Charon]

The Cold War is starting to heat up again.

Weren't there plans on building a new capitol of South Korea so they could get those hundreds of thousands of people out of the way of the artillery?

As is, I think both countries are locked in a stalemate, because North Korea can't move without bringing the Americans into the fight, and they know we will wipe them out. And South Korea can't move without quite possibly bringing China into it, which will cause all sorts of problems. Of course, that being said, who the fuck knows what the North Korean leadership might decide to do. I just hope that if shit goes down China decides they'd rather have an American ally on their border than a batshit crazy nation. But honestly that's a toss-up.

[LadyTevar]

Gods fuckin' dammit... Can we do a tactical strike on that enrichment facility??

[The Cleric]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because the consequences of war mainly fall upon the poor and it would lead to a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st century?

I was under the impression that the general population of Nork was in pretty bad shape as is, with no prospect of it getting better in the near future. How, exactly, would hastening the collapse of the system that has brought them into the current situation and shows no signs of improving be so much worse than the status quo?

[Soontir948]

Thankfully, it seems the deployment of tactical nuclear missiles was just an off-the-cuff statement.

(LEAD) S. Korea denies seeking redeployment of U.S. tactical nuclear weapons
SEOUL, Nov. 23 (Yonhap) -- South Korea on Tuesday denied it was considering redeployment of U.S. tactical nuclear weapons on its territory, watering down a sensitive remark by its defense chief who raised the possibility a day ago.

In response to North Korea's revelation of a new uranium enrichment facility, Defense Minister Kim Tae-yong had raised the possibility on Monday, telling a lawmaker who asked if South Korea would consider such redeployment that the government "will review what you said."

South Korean Defense Minister Kim Tae-young (L) hurriedly leaves the National Assembly for the Defense Ministry upon hearing a report on North Korea's firing of hundreds of rounds of artillery toward South Korean waters and Yeonpyeong Island around 2:34 p.m. on Nov. 23, injuring several soldiers and civilians. (Yonhap)

"South Korea and the U.S. have not discussed redeployment of tactical nuclear weapons," a senior official at the presidential office Cheong Wa Dae said. "And the issue is not a subject of discussion."
"Our aim is to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula, and that will not change," the official said on the condition of anonymity.

The defense minister made the comment as North Korea was upping the ante in its nuclear gambit by showing visiting U.S. scientists what it claimed was a new uranium enrichment facility equipped with some 2,000 centrifuges.

Uranium is an alternative means to plutonium in making nuclear bombs.

The U.S., who had fought on the South Korean side against the invading North in the 1950-53 Korean War, had tactical nuclear weapons stationed in the South until their withdrawal in 1991 as part of its disarmament initiative.

Just months after the announcement of the withdrawal, South and North Korea also signed an agreement on banning activities for nuclear arms development on their soil. The agreement, called the Joint Declaration on the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, came into force in 1992.

"Redeploying U.S. tactical nuclear weapons in South Korea would cross the line of the denuclearization policy on the Korean Peninsula," Deputy Defense Minister Chang Kwang-il told reporters earlier in the day.

Chang said the defense minister's comment had been taken out of context and meant that South Korea could consult with the U.S. with "all possible options" on the table.

He said South Korea, however, has not considered asking the U.S. to bring back its nuclear weapons since their withdrawal.

"There has been no consideration about redeployment of U.S. tactical nuclear arms and there has been no consultation with the U.S. over the issue," Chang said.

The nuclear weapons, previously deployed at 16 military installations here five years after the end of the Korean War, were designed to be put atop missiles or artillery warheads as a deterrent against North Korea.

About 28,500 U.S. troops are stationed in South Korea, a legacy of the three-year-long war.

kdh@yna.co.kr
(END)

[General Havoc]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because the consequences of war mainly fall upon the poor and it would lead to a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st century?

I fail to see how the current situation in North Korea can be described as anything but a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st centuries. Nor how the consequences of that ongoing crisis are falling on anyone but the poor.

There's good reasons not to invade, but fear that things might get bad in North Korea is not one of them. Things are already bad in North Korea, almost beyond crediting. At this point, a total governmental implosion might actually benefit the country.

[Derek Thunder]

Remind me again why we can't just invade and depose the current Nork regime?

Because the consequences of war mainly fall upon the poor and it would lead to a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st century?

I fail to see how the current situation in North Korea can be described as anything but a humanitarian crisis to rival any in either the 20th or 21st centuries. Nor how the consequences of that ongoing crisis are falling on anyone but the poor.

There's good reasons not to invade, but fear that things might get bad in North Korea is not one of them. Things are already bad in North Korea, almost beyond crediting. At this point, a total governmental implosion might actually benefit the country.

Setting aside the doomsday scenario of a scorched earth nuclear strategy an invasion would no doubt create millions of refugees (as happened in Iraq) who cannot be absorbed by either China or South Korea. Things in North Korea are terrible, no doubt, but I believe that starving en masse in Chinese border shantytowns may not be preferable.

[Derek Thunder]

To elaborate on where I'm coming from, I understand how bad things are in North Korea, but I originally bought into the humanitarian justification for invading Iraq and to this day I feel like a damn sucker because of it.

[The Minx]

You're not alone. Though it wasn't that the humanitarian argument was bunk to begin with: its true that Saddam was killing his own people and building palaces using the money from the oil for food programme. The problem is partly that it wasn't the real reason they went in there.

The humanitarian argument might have been halfway justified had Bush not been so incompetent that he didn't plan for what happened after the war (the sectarian violence and all that). After all, almost all the death toll came from what happened after the invasion was technically over, and the country went into meltdown. He clearly thought it would be like the liberation of France from the Nazis or something, the idjit.

In North Korea we have a different situation, since we know that hundreds of thousands of people are almost guaranteed to be killed one way or another and I don't think Obama is under any illusions about how hard the post war situation is going to be if fighting does break out in earnest. :sad:

[The Minx]

Update: Link

North Korea is blaming South Korea, of course.

Koreas on 'brink of war' because of Seoul, Pyongyang says

(CNN) -- North Korea on Wednesday blamed South Korea for driving them "to the brink of war," a day after the North shelled a South Korean island and killed four people.

South Korea provoked the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island by holding a military drill off their shared coast in the Yellow Sea, North Korea said.

Pyongyang made the accusation through its state media, referring to a military drill that Seoul holds every year.

"The puppet group dared make an uproar over 'a provocation' from someone and cry out for 'punishment' like a thief crying 'Stop the thief!'" the North's KCNA news agency said.

"The Lee Myung-bak group's treacherous and anti-reunification acts are intolerable as it vitiated the atmosphere for improving the inter-Korean relations overnight and drove the situation to the brink of war, challenging the desire of all the Koreans," KCNA said.

The administration of South Korean President Lee Myung-bak said it was consulting the United States and other allies Wednesday, following the North's shelling.

"We have come to the judgment that what happened on Yeonpyeong Island was a definite military provocation against the Republic of Korea," the Lee administration said.

"The fact that they have indiscriminately fired upon a defenseless civilian zone was a brutally inhumane action, an illegal and intentional action against the U.N. constitution and the armistice between the North and South Korea."

The South said it was on high alert, but was calmly considering its actions.

"We have ordered to bring calm to the lives of people. For the deceased marines, we will give them honorable treatment and the funeral functions will be held on the coming Saturday," the Lee administration said.

"The close cooperation between the U.S. and South Korea will be maintained and there will be special measures for the damage done to the village."

Seoul on Wednesday announced 1 billion won ($875,583) in emergency money to repair damage wrought by Tuesday's shelling, which killed two South Korean marines and two civilians. The attack also injured 15 South Korean soldiers and three civilians, South Korea said.

The two civilians' bodies were found Wednesday on the coast of Yeonpyeong Island, South Korean coast guard said.

The bodies of two men in their 60s were not recognized by residents of the sparsely populated island, leading officials to believe that they were construction workers from off the island, said Song Young-gil, mayor of Incheon.

Hundreds of South Koreans continued to evacuate from the island on Wednesday. Some residents said they were too afraid to ever return. They described being terrified as North Korean shells landed in and around their homes Tuesday.

On Wednesday, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported that five buildings were directly hit and 22 were damaged during the attack. Photos provided by South Korean coast guard on Wednesday showed demolished and damaged homes.

The Yellow Sea is a longstanding flash point between the two Koreas. In March, 46 South Korean sailors died there when their warship was torpedoed. Seoul says Pyongyang sank the Cheonan, which the North has denied.

The United States said Wednesday that it would hold military drills with South Korea in the Yellow Sea starting on Sunday.

"This exercise is defensive in nature. While planned well before yesterday's unprovoked artillery attack, it demonstrates the strength of the ROK-U.S. alliance and our commitment to regional stability through deterrence," U.S. Forces Korea said.

"The USS George Washington carrier strike group will join Republic of Korea naval forces in the waters west of the Korean peninsula from Nov. 28 to Dec. 1 to conduct the next exercise in the series announced at the 2+2 meetings in July."

The United States has about 28,500 troops deployed in South Korea. A U.S. defense official said more than 50 U.S. Navy vessels are in the area, including a carrier strike group led by the USS George Washington.

The North Korean shelling has put the entire region on edge.

On Wednesday, Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan said, "North Korea's artillery attack on South Korea was an attack on an area where ordinary citizens live. This is an unforgivable act of barbarism. We have been strongly condemning North Korea for this action and will continue to do so."

"This attack created extreme anxiety not only in South Korea, but also in the East Asia region, including Japan. We must tackle this issue with close coordination with South Korea, as well as the United States. At the same time, we urge China, which holds a strong influence over North Korea, to make an effort to suppress such action by North Korea."

China, which is North Korea's key ally, has responded obliquely to Tuesday's shelling.

"We have taken note of relevant reports and express our concern. Relevant facts need to be verified and we hope both parties make more contributions to the stability of the peninsula," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.

Beijing sustains North Korea with food, arms and fuel. International sanctions over the North's nuclear program have isolated the country. Its people have gone hungry as Pyongyang has poured money into its military and nuclear programs.

Since conducting a training exercise ... a. :roll:

[frigidmagi]

Remember North Korea is playing to it's domestic audience and working under the condition of total information monopoly. Hell for that matter, there are idiots who believe them and devotedly believe the US and the West to be forces of monstrous evil and North Korea a bastion of goodness and light.

As for the post war situation... I can't begin to imagine or describe how bad it will be. We'll have a nation of nearly starved brainwashed people with no real modern skills who need to be fed, deprogramed and educated... All at once. And that's without considering the material aspects of the rebuilding. It makes the German reunification problems look like a preschool math assignment.