Multiprocessor discussion

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Intel is pursuing higher clockspeed, while AMD goes for more instruction per cycle. In consumer-level processing, it seems there are only those two paths.

However, outside the PC world, Sun has been continuing to refine the art of Symmetric Multiprocessing. However, such approach tends to go unnoticed in the consumer market.


I wonder:


(1) Is PC going to benefit from multiprocessing? IMO, such approaches has been less than successful in PC market, particularly games. How many games actually take advantage of Hyperthreading, for instance? (yes I know HT is not really multiprocessor approach but it was close).


(2) How would graphic-intensive applications like games benefit from multiprocessing? I remember a friend at 3dfxZone claimed his Falcon 4.0 showed some noticeable improvements when running on dual AMD processor (the OS is Windows 2000 professional). Do games have to be specifically written to take advantage of multiprocessing, or it's just the matter of the OS?


(3) How difficult it is to make a scalable processor? I'm not sure whether this is relevant to the discussion, but if we take a look on video cards, I get the impression that it's fairly difficult to create a scalable GPU. One of the reasons while VSA-100 (the chip of Voodoo5) was admired is because its flawless scalable implementation, while other attempts like ATI Rage Fury MAXX and Volari Duo have not been very successful. So it is that difficult to design a scalable processor?

And how about CPU? From my own experience, even multiprocessor Pentium IV servers can never beat Sun servers in terms of speed and stability (note that my implementations are Oracle databases, which involve a lot of parallel processing). Sun always keeps it up with increasing amount of transactions, while the Pentium starts to be brought down to its knees.


(4) How likely would AMD or Intel go for processor scalability?

[Ace Pace]

I'll combine one and two becuase those have basicly the same answer:
Games and all applications must be programmed correctly to take advantage of duel cores, and its VERY complex, to take UE3 as an example, their working for YEARS on this thing to get it to run well on two processes.

3) Ask someone else, sorrry.

4) Unlikely in the home market, Intel may try something with Itanium.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I'll combine one and two becuase those have basicly the same answer:
Games and all applications must be programmed correctly to take advantage of duel cores, and its VERY complex, to take UE3 as an example, their working for YEARS on this thing to get it to run well on two processes.

It is always what I've been thinking too. In fact, in server applications like database requires us to manually set certain parameters to use parallel processing. In Oracle, you even have to specify such thing for each specific objects/activities (table access, I/O processes, etc).

But I was pretty much surprised when he told me about the Falcon 4.0 performance; especially since he claimed there's about 40% increase in frame rate. Well the game ain't specifically designed to use multiprocessor, so I just wonder.....

....probably there are low-level or OS-level instructions that are transparent to the application, so even though the application ain't supporting multiple processor (as long as the O/S supports them), such configuration would improve performance to some degree anyway?

[Ace Pace]

The OS can handle alot of work, since it does have to organize threads into CPU time, however, there is only so much an OS can do, unless the program in hereantly multi-processor, alot also depends on compilers, using Intel's compilers, HT becomes more usful, and the differances between Intel Northwood and Intel Presscott compilers are stunning.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The OS can handle alot of work, since it does have to organize threads into CPU time, however, there is only so much an OS can do, unless the program in hereantly multi-processor, alot also depends on compilers, using Intel's compilers, HT becomes more usful, and the differances between Intel Northwood and Intel Presscott compilers are stunning.

Interesting. But there are OS processes that are transparent to an application (multi processing-wise), ain't there? What are they? Could you point me some sources? (Linky?)

PS: where have you been, Ace?

[Ace Pace]

I've been down in Eilat having fun.

Some OS multi stuff is transperent, but alot of the work is in Multi-tasking, and countrary to what we like to think, XP is bad with alot of threads at once, theres a limit to how much we can parralize even with enough core's, just because of the XP schedualer.

No linkies, working off general articles from Ars, GGS and Kernel.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I've been down in Eilat having fun.

Eliat?

Some OS multi stuff is transperent, but alot of the work is in Multi-tasking, and countrary to what we like to think, XP is bad with alot of threads at once, theres a limit to how much we can parralize even with enough core's, just because of the XP schedualer.

No linkies, working off general articles from Ars, GGS and Kernel.

I see. Guess I gotta' stop being a slacker and start looking for resources myself. ;)

[Ace Pace]

See Eilat:

Eilat is like Miami, only biologicly intresting, and the border between three countries.

It is also the best place to see chicks in Israel.
see:
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/catskop/eilat/eilat.jpg
http://www.op-reis.com/03%20midden-oost ... eilat1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/ ... /eilat.jpg

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

It is also the best place to see chicks in Israel.
see:
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/catskop/eilat/eilat.jpg
http://www.op-reis.com/03%20midden-oost ... eilat1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/ ... /eilat.jpg

Bah, where's the chicks?? :(

[Ace Pace]

Sorry, just google Eilat, or ISraeli chicks.

[Ace Pace]

Bump, AMD has joined Intel in offering cheap duel core processors(though not Intel cheap), givin the fact the greatest use of DC right now is for the day by day use, what kind of Duel core would you want to buy?

This is going by the assumption that you are NOT a gamer.

If it was me, I'd take the middle of the road CPU, powerful enough that I won't feel its age if I do some intensive number crunching and cheap enough that I don't feel like I'm overspending on a casual PC.