The morality of prostitution?

[Faqa]

Listen, my only fear for the whole prostitution being legal thing is what kind of risk does this put the girl in? Now granted its probably less than illegal prostitutes face, but still the girl would probably be in a small area say a “bedroom” with a stranger who stands a good chance at being much stronger than her.

She assumes that risk as part of the job. And if it's a legal job, she can scream, have him arrested when he leaves. She does NOT have to take whatever he dishes out, it's a job. She can just LEAVE, because there is no pimp standing over her, no fuckers dangling her visa in front of her.

As you say, legalization lessens that risk.

As to Comrade Tortoise, he's absolutely right that the sex industry needs some major social engineering. How the fuck is said same going to be pulled off WHILE prostitution is illegal, may I ask? Once the police can't harass you for it, legitimate people start getting into it. These people will attract many of the current street girls, since they offer better conditions for their workers.

Street hookers can come to the cops, and there's no way they'll spend time in a cell. Which might(shock) lead to MORE of the abuse in the sex industry being stopped. If the law turns into a refuge rather than a hunter, that's one less pressure on the girl to stay with her pimp. And said pimps CERTAINLY won't be grabbing many NEW bodies into the system when there's a place that treats the ladies like human beings just down the road.

Plus, who visits prostitutes now? People who don't mind breaking the law. While obviously not close to an absolute(as I'm sure quite a few here can attest), the fact is, your customers are breaking the law just by being there. That's not a fun group, on average, to work with. The quality of CUSTOMERS will be improved as well, as people can start treating it as an option, and not some shameful thing a loser runs illegally into alleys to get, right down there with drug-dealing.

Whole thing's a chain reaction, which will INCLUDE the social engineering needed to make the sex industry less seedy.

It's not a matter of magically fixing the current state of affairs. It's having a new system supersede it, one that is NOT morally bankrupt.

Of course, most people selling their bodies ARE low on resources and options. No doubt. Getting pounded all day CAN'T be fun. But it's no different from the guy who's stuck delivering groceries when university just wasn't fun enough to continue.

In short, me-too. Prostitution isn't immoral. The current system of it is.

[vampykat]

Make it legal, make it a requirement that they have to have medical checkups to keep their licenses. Tax their income as you tax any other income.

No need for background checks because one does not require background checks on other services one might purchase.


Just like pot, if you legalize it, require taxation other than the drug stamps of to date..less problems.

*shrugs*

[Comrade Tortoise]

No need for background checks because one does not require background checks on other services one might purchase.

I would argue that background checks would be needed for CLIENTS. You dont want someone who was convicted of sexual assault anywhere near the hookers

[vampykat]

Assumption of risk. You take the job knowing there is a risk. The legal prostitution in Nevada does not do background checks on their clients. You have security there in case of an emergency.

We do not require exoctic dancers to have their customers have background checks, though they are in a position where they could be harmed as well.

Electrical linemen do their jobs every day knowing there is a chance they could be killed. Policemen, military personal, fireman.

They all have an assumption of risk to their jobs. They signed up for the job and accept the possibilty of harm. Why should legalized prostitution get better protection?

[Batman]

Thanks for jogging my mind, vampycat.

I would argue that background checks would be needed for CLIENTS. You dont want someone who was convicted of sexual assault anywhere near the hookers

You don't want somebody convinced of sexual assault anywhere near anybody period. With reasonable security precautions in place, prostitutes are in less danger from sexual assault than, say,your average housewife or lone girl walking the park at night.

By the same token, you don't want someone convicted of armed robbery anywhere near a store clerk. Should every grocery store in the country introduce background checks on their clients?

[frigidmagi]

By the same token, you don't want someone convicted of armed robbery anywhere near a store clerk. Should every grocery store in the country introduce background checks on their clients?

Not equalivent. The clerk is selling the guy food, in public, surrounded by others in the same room with a security guard, from behind a desk.

The girl is getting naked, crawling into a bed with guy alone and having sex with him and to be blunt sex is a much different behavior than walking up to the counter and buying Coco Puffs, there is no comparsion between the levels of contact. Unless somewhere there's a nation I'm unaware of where it is required to engage in intercourse before you can pay for your food at the supermarket (no selling sex for food doesn't count).

On a side note Why does this thread refuse to die? And I know it's ironic of me to ask while posting in it.

[Batman]

By the same token, you don't want someone convicted of armed robbery anywhere near a store clerk. Should every grocery store in the country introduce background checks on their clients?

Not equalivent. The clerk is selling the guy food, in public, surrounded by others in the same room with a security guard, from behind a desk.

My apologies. I wasn't aware there would always be some witnesses and a security guard around under any circumstances, especially at 2 a.m. in the morning. The desk is going to make a difference when a firearm is involved how exactly?
If you get to assume there will always be witnesses and a Security Guard on call in a Grocery Store, I get to assume there will always be witnesses and Security Guards on call in a brothel. In fact it's a lot easier to provide security in the latter case because the number of customers is much more limited.

On a side note Why does this thread refuse to die? And I know it's ironic of me to ask while posting in it.

Presumably because prostitution is such a controversial topic. And frankly given that stupid Assasin thread in FA&C got revived after three months without anybody complaining I don't know what you're whining about.

[frigidmagi]

I wasn't aware there would always be some witnesses and a security guard around under any circumstances, especially at 2 a.m. in the morning. The desk is going to make a difference when a firearm is involved how exactly?

One, having worked overnight in a store like this yes there are always witnesses for one thing, every overnight crew is made up of more than one person.

Two if I have to deal with a security guard in a gocery store at 4 in the morning (I was thristy back off) I will certainly have to deal with him in 2 in the fucking morning won't I?

Three welcome to basic training. A wooden desk can deflect or in some cases even stop the round from a 9mm pistol (weak fucking things really compared to rifle rounds) the desk in your average all night supermarket is a monster made up of metal and plastics. It provides cover and if you're quick, concealment.

Terminolgy:
Cover is something that will protect you from a round, there are of course different grades of cover, but any cover is better than on your back, naked, in bed with the opponent right next to you.

Concealment is something that conceals you view, it will not necessarly stop a round, but if you cannot be seen it's harder to be shot at isn't it?

If you get to assume there will always be witnesses and a Security Guard on call in a Grocery Store, I get to assume there will always be witnesses and Security Guards on call in a brothel. In fact it's a lot easier to provide security in the latter case because the number of customers is much more limited.

Actually no, you don't. I am making the assumation based off observed facts that A: I have never seen a clerk alone in a 24 gorcey store nor was I ever alone while working there. B: I have observed security guards working at 24 hour estblishments.

I of course await the story of the brothel that as a security guard hovering over every client and working girl, while on the one hand I would appluand such a devotation to worker safety, I would wonder how many clients they could honestly expect? While I must honestly admit I am not a cleint of any brothel, nor have I ever been a client I would think that men paying for sex would prefer not to do so in a crowded room full of witnesses, and the stories from fellow Marines led me to believe that you usually had the room to yourselves. So again, I am going off evidence. If I am mistaken feel free to provide counter evidence.

Presumably because prostitution is such a controversial topic.

So is the intelligence level of my President verus a house cat, I don't see a thread on that that won't die. (that reminds me how is Merkle (sp?) doing over there? She's the first female executive of Germany right?)

And frankly given that stupid Assasin thread in FA&C got revived after three months without anybody complaining I don't know what you're whining about.

Look I was told I could run my forum as I saw fit and I decided if the kids want to chat about who their favorite murderer is, why the fuck not let them chat about who their favorite murderer is?

[Batman]

I wasn't aware there would always be some witnesses and a security guard around under any circumstances, especially at 2 a.m. in the morning. The desk is going to make a difference when a firearm is involved how exactly?

One, having worked overnight in a store like this yes there are always witnesses for one thing, every overnight crew is made up of more than one person.
Two if I have to deal with a security guard in a gocery store at 4 in the morning (I was thristy back off) I will certainly have to deal with him in 2 in the fucking morning won't I?

You will, assuming that is the way things are in the US. If there truly is a security guard in any and all grocery stores (or a reasonable approximation thereof), and there are always customers around, I happily admit I was mistaken. I severely doubt that is the case, however.
Of course, that may be due to my ignorance of the shopping habits of the average US citizen, but are you telling me there isn't a shopping lull during the middle of the night?

Three welcome to basic training. A wooden desk can deflect or in some cases even stop the round from a 9mm pistol (weak fucking things really compared to rifle rounds) the desk in your average all night supermarket is a monster made up of metal and plastics. It provides cover and if you're quick, concealment.

It provides either both or neither.

If you get to assume there will always be witnesses and a Security Guard on call in a Grocery Store, I get to assume there will always be witnesses and Security Guards on call in a brothel. In fact it's a lot easier to provide security in the latter case because the number of customers is much more limited.

Actually no, you don't. I am making the assumation based off observed facts that A: I have never seen a clerk alone in a 24 gorcey store nor was I ever alone while working there. B: I have observed security guards working at 24 hour estblishments.

I could argue that is anecdotal evidence but at this point I'm inclined to agree that the US shopping culture apparently doesn't quite work the way I thought it does.

I of course await the story of the brothel that as a security guard hovering over every client and working girl,

And you bse that count of 1 guard per client/worker on-what,exactly?

while on the one hand I would appluand such a devotation to worker safety, I would wonder how many clients they could honestly expect?

I'm not sure wether or not any studies in that direction have ever been done but for the same amount of employees I'm reasonably certain a lot less than your average grocery store.

While I must honestly admit I am not a cleint of any brothel, nor have I ever been a client I would think that men paying for sex would prefer not to do so in a crowded room full of witnesses, and the stories from fellow Marines led me to believe that you usually had the room to yourselves. So again, I am going off evidence. If I am mistaken feel free to provide counter evidence.

1. Cameras.
2. Guards on call.
Two safeguards which chicks in a park, college girls, or housewives don't have.
Sexual assault is going to happen, there's no way around that (except eradicating humanity and that seems a tad extreme-mostly).

Presumably because prostitution is such a controversial topic.

So is the intelligence level of my President versus a house cat,

Um-what's controversial about that? Everybody agrees the cat wins by a landslide.

And frankly given that stupid Assasin thread in FA&C got revived after three months without anybody complaining I don't know what you're whining about.

Look I was told I could run my forum as I saw fit and I decided if the kids want to chat about who their favorite murderer is, why the fuck not let them chat about who their favorite murderer is?

And that's it- The assassin thread is, for all practical purposes, chatting. The prostitution one is moderately serious. I f what is basically a chat thread is allowed to live on, why shouldn't a moderately serious discussion one be?

[frigidmagi]

It provides either both or neither.

a quick aside, that is false. Cover and concealment are two seperate things. An object can and does provide one without the other. A bush does not provide cover but it will provide concealment. There are many objects that provide both but it should never be assumed that this is the norm to which all objects are to be held to. This thinking would have gotten me killed. However this is perhaps a completely different subject,

You will, assuming that is the way things are in the US. If there truly is a security guard in any and all grocery stores (or a reasonable approximation thereof), and there are always customers around, I happily admit I was mistaken. I severely doubt that is the case, however.
Of course, that may be due to my ignorance of the shopping habits of the average US citizen, but are you telling me there isn't a shopping lull during the middle of the night?

I fail to see what the lull has to do with the security guard being present. Yes there is a lull, no that doesn't mean security guards go away, if anything that's when you want them around more. Nor does that lull mean that one person alone can handle all the task required in a gorcey store for example where I worked there were 2 clerks on duty, 5 overnight stockers, 1 manager and a jaintor. All could see the front of the store where the clerk worked. Security guard are usually stationed at the front entrance, their main concern is to prevent theft(the shoplifting kind).

1. Cameras.
2. Guards on call.

Expect the vast majorities of Brothels don't even have that, if they did they would be able to hand a couple of Middleeastern men with clubs wouldn't they? Serious, yes this would be a good idea and I am behind it, but if a women, alone, naked (so she is without the kinda aide a good, well made shoe can provide, no not high hells I said a good shoe) with a male who outranges them in height and weight... Honestly? Odds are they will be very seriously harmed before the guards get there.

Two safeguards which chicks in a park, college girls, or housewives don't have.

I was unaware that college girls, housewives and and chicks in parks were expected to place themselves unarmed in a possiblily dangerous situation with an abolsute stranger as a part of their job, everyday... Repeatly.

You'll have to forgive me if I assume that a sex worker is at higher risk than a house wife or a college girl. I'm kinda crazy like that.

Sexual assault is going to happen, there's no way around that (except eradicating humanity and that seems a tad extreme-mostly).

That does not mean we ignore it or expose people unncessaryly to it. I am not agruing the morality of prostitution here, that is a dead horse, no one will move on that. What I am agruing is the foolish of pretending it's a job like a gorcey store clerk when the risk it entails are more compareabe to a cop or a solder (Look, if anyone can decide here on this board what compares to being a combat ground troop it's me, it's not an uncommon opinion amoung fellow marines either).

I'm going to be blunt. This is a job where you are asked to strip naked, get into a room with another person and allow them to insert things into your body and then pleasure them and you are expected to do so repeatly. This line of work is different from others. It carries heaver risk than being asked to make change for people at Walmart. It just shrug off the risk is Akin to Rumsfield remark about armor on humvees I note everyone here got a wee bit huffy over that. If a society makes this job legal it owes the women who take this job protection, alot of protection. The history of this work, the way certain segments all across the world view this line of work and the sheer risk they take on this work demand it otherwise the soceity should not pretend to be moral, honorable or even trustworthy in anyway shape or form. This is a job that is inherently risky and makes greater demands than the vast majority of jobs out there and should not be in any way compared to a Walmart stocker or gorcey store clerk at all.

Um-what's controversial about that? Everybody agrees the cat wins by a landslide.

Yes because the man who'se managed to win two elections, outmanuever Congress and all of his enemies across the poltical spectrum must clearly be an idiot. That's the only possible solution to the facts that his opponents have been getting an asskicking for the last 5 years. Color me unconvinced, just based on what's actually happened.

And that's it- The assassin thread is, for all practical purposes, chatting. The prostitution one is moderately serious. I f what is basically a chat thread is allowed to live on, why shouldn't a moderately serious discussion one be?
________

The assassin thread goes somewhere, this thread goes around in circles and does so slowly.

[Cynical Cat]

This thread can continue as long as people having something to contribute on the issue, whether it is a line of arguement or useful statistics. Its not like this section faces a flood of new posts.