Why polygamy is a bad idea

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#1 Why polygamy is a bad idea

Post by Mayabird »

I suppose this article would go here. It could also go into P&T I suppose, but this is less about the philosophy of why polygamy is a bad idea vs. what would actually happen to society if it was implemented. But at the same time, it could also go into N&P. I'm cool with wherever this goes.
SOCIAL STUDIES
One Man, Many Wives, Big Problems

By Jonathan Rauch, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, March 31, 2006

"And now, polygamy," sighs Charles Krauthammer, in a recent Washington Post column.


Other things being equal, when one man marries two women, some other man marries no woman. When one man marries three women, two other men don't marry.


It's true. As if they didn't already have enough on their minds, Americans are going to have to debate polygamy. And not a moment too soon.

For generations, taboo kept polygamy out of sight and out of mind in America. But the taboo is crumbling. An HBO television series called Big Love, which benignly portrays a one-husband, three-wife family in Utah, set off the latest round of polygamy talk. Even so, a federal lawsuit (now on appeal), the American Civil Liberties Union's stand for polygamy rights, and the rising voices of pro-polygamy groups such as TruthBearer.org (an evangelical Christian group) and Principle Voices (which Newsweek describes as "a Utah-based group run by wives from polygamous marriages") were already making the subject hard to duck.

So far, libertarians and lifestyle liberals approach polygamy as an individual-choice issue, while cultural conservatives use it as a bloody shirt to wave in the gay-marriage debate. The broad public opposes polygamy but is unsure why. What hardly anyone is doing is thinking about polygamy as social policy.

If the coming debate changes that, it will have done everyone a favor. For reasons that have everything to do with its own social dynamics and nothing to do with gay marriage, polygamy is a profoundly hazardous policy.

To understand why, begin with two crucial words. The first is "marriage." Group love (sometimes called polyamory) is already legal, and some people freely practice it. Polygamy asserts not a right to love several others but a right to marry them all. Because a marriage license is a state grant, polygamy is a matter of public policy, not just of personal preference.

The second crucial word is "polygyny." Unlike gay marriage, polygamy has been a common form of marriage since at least biblical times, and probably long before. In his 1994 book The Moral Animal: The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology, Robert Wright notes that a "huge majority" of the human societies for which anthropologists have data have been polygamous. Virtually all of those have been polygynous: that is, one husband, multiple wives. Polyandry (one wife, many husbands) is vanishingly rare. The real-world practice of polygamy seems to flow from men's desire to marry all the women they can have children with.

Moreover, in America today the main constituents for polygamous marriage are Mormons and, as Newsweek reports, "a growing number of evangelical Christian and Muslim polygamists." These religious groups practice polygyny, not polyandry. Thus, in light of current American politics as well as copious anthropological experience, any responsible planner must assume that if polygamy were legalized, polygynous marriages would outnumber polyandrous ones -- probably vastly.

Here is something else to consider: As far as I've been able to determine, no polygamous society has ever been a true liberal democracy, in anything like the modern sense. As societies move away from hierarchy and toward equal opportunity, they leave polygamy behind. They monogamize as they modernize. That may be a coincidence, but it seems more likely to be a logical outgrowth of the arithmetic of polygamy.

Other things being equal (and, to a good first approximation, they are), when one man marries two women, some other man marries no woman. When one man marries three women, two other men don't marry. When one man marries four women, three other men don't marry. Monogamy gives everyone a shot at marriage. Polygyny, by contrast, is a zero-sum game that skews the marriage market so that some men marry at the expense of others.

For the individuals affected, losing the opportunity to marry is a grave, even devastating, deprivation. (Just ask a gay American.) But the effects are still worse at the social level. Sexual imbalance in the marriage market has no good social consequences and many grim ones.

Two political scientists, Valerie M. Hudson and Andrea M. den Boer, ponder those consequences in their 2004 book Bare Branches: Security Implications of Asia's Surplus Male Population. Summarizing their findings in a Washington Post article, they write: "Scarcity of women leads to a situation in which men with advantages -- money, skills, education -- will marry, but men without such advantages -- poor, unskilled, illiterate -- will not. A permanent subclass of bare branches [unmarriageable men] from the lowest socioeconomic classes is created. In China and India, for example, by the year 2020 bare branches will make up 12 to 15 percent of the young adult male population."

The problem in China and India is sex-selective abortion (and sometimes infanticide), not polygamy; where the marriage market is concerned, however, the two are functional equivalents. In their book, Hudson and den Boer note that "bare branches are more likely than other males to turn to vice and violence." To get ahead, they "may turn to appropriation of resources, using force if necessary." Such men are ripe for recruitment by gangs, and in groups they "exhibit even more exaggerated risky and violent behavior." The result is "a significant increase in societal, and possibly intersocietal, violence."

Crime rates, according to the authors, tend to be higher in polygynous societies. Worse, "high-sex-ratio societies are governable only by authoritarian regimes capable of suppressing violence at home and exporting it abroad through colonization or war." In medieval Portugal, "the regime would send bare branches on foreign adventures of conquest and colonization." (An equivalent today may be jihad.) In 19th-century China, where as many as 25 percent of men were unable to marry, "these young men became natural recruits for bandit gangs and local militia," which nearly toppled the government. In what is now Taiwan, unattached males fomented regular revolts and became "entrepreneurs of violence."

Hudson and den Boer suggest that societies become inherently unstable when sex ratios reach something like 120 males to 100 females: in other words, when one-sixth of men are surplus goods on the marriage market. The United States as a whole would reach that ratio if, for example, 5 percent of men took two wives, 3 percent took three wives, and 2 percent took four wives -- numbers that are quite imaginable, if polygamy were legal for a while. In particular communities -- inner cities, for example -- polygamy could take a toll much more quickly.

Even a handful of "Solomons" (high-status men taking multiple wives) could create brigades of new recruits for street gangs and drug lords, the last thing those communities need.

Such problems are not merely theoretical. In northern Arizona, a polygamous Mormon sect has managed its surplus males by dumping them on the street -- literally. The sect, reports The Arizona Republic, "has orphaned more than 400 teenagers ... in order to leave young women for marriage to the older men." The paper goes on to say that the boys "are dropped off in neighboring towns, facing hunger, homelessness, and homesickness, and most cripplingly, a belief in a future of suffering and darkness."

True, in modern America some polygynous marriages would probably be offset by group marriages or chain marriages involving multiple husbands, but there is no way to know how large such an offset might be. And remember: Every unbalanced polygynous marriage, other things being equal, leaves some man bereft of the opportunity to marry, which is no small cost to that man.

The social dynamics of zero-sum marriage are ugly. In a polygamous world, boys could no longer grow up taking marriage for granted. Many would instead see marriage as a trophy in a sometimes brutal competition for wives. Losers would understandably burn with resentment, and most young men, even those who eventually won, would fear losing. Although much has been said about polygamy's inegalitarian implications for women who share a husband, the greater victims of inequality would be men who never become husbands.

By this point it should be obvious that polygamy is, structurally and socially, the opposite of same-sex marriage, not its equivalent. Same-sex marriage stabilizes individuals, couples, communities, and society by extending marriage to many who now lack it. Polygamy destabilizes individuals, couples, communities, and society by withdrawing marriage from many who now have it.

As the public focuses on a subject it has not confronted for generations, the hazards of polygamy are likely to sink in. In time, debating polygamy will remind us why our ancestors were right to abolish it. The question is whether the debate will reach its stride soon enough to prevent polygamy from winning a lazy acquiescence that it in no way deserves.

-- Jonathan Rauch is a senior writer for National Journal magazine, where "Social Studies" appears. His e-mail address is jrauch@nationaljournal.com.
http://nationaljournal.com/rauch.htm

So...comments? Discussion?
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#2

Post by Comrade Tortoise »

*files this away in my logs*

Personally i think the author has a good point. Not much I can really say unless someone challenges the point though.
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#3

Post by frigidmagi »

Actually you really can't challedge the point. Cat and I have discussed it very often, if you deny a large portion of your population a chance at creating a family, you are causing instability. Look at the Polygamus in Northern Arizona, they're causing instability in surrounding communities by dumping off surplus males. This is however only possible by living in a stable community.

It has been noted repeatly that communities with large groups of young males who are cut off from family life or economic improvement are not stable. Look at Suadi Arabia.

When forcably denied, it is only a matter of time before these males would in turn use force themselves (one can note the politics of conquest and enslavement in the times that polygamy was common, terrorism recruitment in Saudi Araba, current political unrest in China and India...) In order to control these groups, you need a harsher power structure and punishment system than currently exist in the U.S. A quick look at how often the death penatly is used in the Old Testament should give you a sense. Another way is by exporting these groups (as practiced by the mormons or by various invading armies).

Frankly Polygamy is a power play. The only winners of such a society are older wealther men. Women lose and vast majority of younger males lose. The question we should ask is why are we being forced to entertain a idea that only makes the wealthy better off and places the rest of us in deep shit?
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#4

Post by Mayabird »

frigidmagi wrote:The question we should ask is why are we being forced to entertain a idea that only makes the wealthy better off and places the rest of us in deep shit?
I wasn't defending it myself. I thought it would be a good resource for people who have to argue against "Gay marriage leads to incest and polygamy!" We have the anti-incest arguments down (genetics, greater chances of bad recessive genes being paired...which can also be seen in those polygamous Mormon communities, since girls often get married off to their close relatives, uncles or grandfathers even. )

There is a lot to discuss about the implications of sex selection in China and India. Trafficking of women from other countries, for instance (North Korean women are getting lured to China, where they're bascially bought to be wives). In some rural areas of China where the sex ratios are even more skewed than the average, women are even being forced to marry their brothers so at least that brother has a wife. The results are not pleasant. That might be more of a N&P topic, though.
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#5

Post by frigidmagi »

I didn't mean to suggest you were defending it Maya.
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#6

Post by Drox »

Other things being equal (and, to a good first approximation, they are), when one man marries two women, some other man marries no woman. When one man marries three women, two other men don't marry. When one man marries four women, three other men don't marry. Monogamy gives everyone a shot at marriage. Polygyny, by contrast, is a zero-sum game that skews the marriage market so that some men marry at the expense of others.
This one set me off. It seems that the author is assuming that all men will want to marry, and be wed to women at that. It seems laughable to me at best that polygamy would lead to "scarcity of women" on a societal scale when there are already men who do not wed women and men who simply fail to attract a wife.

Besides that, marriage isn't permanent. A woman getting married isn't the same as burning up a gallon of gasoline.
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Yes, but the number of people who do not wish to at least attract a partner of the opposite sex is vanishingly small in comparison to the total population. Widespread polygamy, especially marriages with possibly dozens of wives as advocated by the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints, will produce a shortage of women.
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Post by Comrade Tortoise »

Drox wrote:
Other things being equal (and, to a good first approximation, they are), when one man marries two women, some other man marries no woman. When one man marries three women, two other men don't marry. When one man marries four women, three other men don't marry. Monogamy gives everyone a shot at marriage. Polygyny, by contrast, is a zero-sum game that skews the marriage market so that some men marry at the expense of others.
This one set me off. It seems that the author is assuming that all men will want to marry, and be wed to women at that. It seems laughable to me at best that polygamy would lead to "scarcity of women" on a societal scale when there are already men who do not wed women and men who simply fail to attract a wife.

Besides that, marriage isn't permanent. A woman getting married isn't the same as burning up a gallon of gasoline.
You are beaten by the empirical evidence. Polygamy in mormon communities HAS INDEED caused the sort of problems mentioned. Marriage may not be permanent, but it certainly isnt all that flexible either. If it becomes socially acceptable to have multiple mates (I will use mate because marriage is a bit of misnomer) at the same time, then it will increase the number of males who want, but cannot find, a mate and this will cause social instability. Simple observations of sexually frustrated teenagers are all the proof anyone needs of this. Observations of other social mammals support it as well. The unmated male gets antzy and starts trying to muscle in on another males mates and/or take over the group etc etc etc.

Human communities are not infinite in size. They tend top be fairly small, even in a huge city like London or New York, the number of attainable, unattached mates (generally roughly within or slightly above one's socioeconomic class for females, or within or slightly below if we are talking about males) within the correct age-group and within the ability of an individual to meet and interact with (if they live on the other side of town and never see eachother they dont count) is fairly small. If one or a few males in any given sub-community of individuals monopoloze the available females, there will be problems. As the author mentions.
Last edited by Comrade Tortoise on Tue May 09, 2006 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#9

Post by Drox »

Gathered data is good and well, but again, that's what I'm talking about. You say:
Polygamy in mormon communities
I don't disagree that those things do happen. I know this. The data is fine. What I'm taking exception with is the interpretation. Especially since the most (or the most talked about) data appears to be stemming from a few religious sects. The implication seems to be that if socially allowed/accepted, everybody would act in this manner. This also assumes that persons not brought up with that kind of culture will be accepting of the lifestyle. Maybe not a "scientific" assumption, per se, but I'd wager that it would be easier to find males wanting multiple wives than it would be to find a female who wishes to "share" her husband with other wives. While things can be learned from "simple observations of sexually frustrated teenagers", I'd hope that particular mindset isn't representative of our race or society as a whole.

I know, I know, naive. :lol:

Speaking of such, though, I've observed interesting things. I have seen one teenage girl who already has one child, become pregnant again by a boy that was not the father of the first. This second boy has already fathered two other children, each with a different mother. Any thoughts as to how this sort of behaviour (while obviously not the norm, I wouldn't dare to imagine that it is unique) could tie in to the issue?

I'm also curious as to why the discussion seems limited to only legal marriage. The amount of people who cohabit with (and possibly reproduce with) multiple people without marrying must have an impact, although I'm not aware of any statistics on that.

You make a very good point, though, Comrade, about the limitations of actual human communities, rather than speaking in terms of regions.
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Post by Comrade Tortoise »

The implication seems to be that if socially allowed/accepted, everybody would act in this manner.
Males certainly would. It is in their biological makeup to wish to live under those conditions.
This also assumes that persons not brought up with that kind of culture will be accepting of the lifestyle. Maybe not a "scientific" assumption, per se, but I'd wager that it would be easier to find males wanting multiple wives than it would be to find a female who wishes to "share" her husband with other wives.
We live in a male dominated sociaty. Like it or not, if polygamy were allowed, there would be plenty fo females who want to live under those conditions, or, simply would not have any other choice.

To use those mormon communities as examples. The females are married against their will in many cases. These are not isolated cases. Every polygamous society that I know of does this. Even in places like the US where women have full property rights, it still happens.

Speaking of such, though, I've observed interesting things. I have seen one teenage girl who already has one child, become pregnant again by a boy that was not the father of the first. This second boy has already fathered two other children, each with a different mother.
Teenagers are sluts. That is about all I can say. Well not quite. You will note that the common thread of this is a male who goes about reproducing everywhere. If he were not allowed to reproduce...
I'm also curious as to why the discussion seems limited to only legal marriage. The amount of people who cohabit with (and possibly reproduce with) multiple people without marrying must have an impact, although I'm not aware of any statistics on that.
I am not sure, but if I am not mistaken those sort of arrangements are often short lived. The problem with a marriage is that it is legally binding. Property is shared. There is more of a committment which would prevent mate-turnover within a short period of time like that which normally exists in a casual; fuck-buddy relationship.
You make a very good point, though, Comrade, about the limitations of actual human communities, rather than speaking in terms of regions.
Thanks. It is what youn get from the guy that wants to be a community ecologist/herpetologist who also takes social psych classes.
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Post by Ace Pace »

Mayabird wrote:
frigidmagi wrote:The question we should ask is why are we being forced to entertain a idea that only makes the wealthy better off and places the rest of us in deep shit?
I wasn't defending it myself. I thought it would be a good resource for people who have to argue against "Gay marriage leads to incest and polygamy!" We have the anti-incest arguments down (genetics, greater chances of bad recessive genes being paired...which can also be seen in those polygamous Mormon communities, since girls often get married off to their close relatives, uncles or grandfathers even. )
*Casts necro*
Incest and polygamy should be seperate cases and considered seperately. One, polygamy, leads to social problems. The other, IF extended to child bearing, leads to social burdun. However, marriage today is not exclusively for reproductive reasons (Same-sex marriages), so asumming a same-sex incestual relationship, what is the harm to society?
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#12

Post by Shark Bait »

Ace Pace wrote:
*Casts necro*
Incest and polygamy should be seperate cases and considered seperately. One, polygamy, leads to social problems. The other, IF extended to child bearing, leads to social burdun. However, marriage today is not exclusively for reproductive reasons (Same-sex marriages), so asumming a same-sex incestual relationship, what is the harm to society?
to indulge the necro briefly:

The way I'm looking at it an individual couple could have no effect or harm whatsoever assuming they mostly kept to themselves. A very public same-sex incestuous couple well that would most likely lead to harm against the gay community, it just puts ammunition in the hands of nut bags who equate homosexuality with all forms of sexual deviancy.

I think most rational people look at incest and recoil a bit, and I don't think that it is coincidental that this is common in many societies. Even if same sex relationships are not strictly for procreation as an end result, many of the drives involved in them are relatively the same. So honestly unless something is really wrong in the individual histories I'm not too certain how common same sex incestuous couples really would be.

One last note on polygamy, a problem that appears to have been over looked is simple group dynamics, humans by nature will form alliances to achieve common goals (just ask magi about the voting block). In a diade if two people disagree they can resolve the conflict by one backing down or compromise, however in a triade this is a bit more difficult because both sides will attempt to court the third party to agree with them and lend credibility to their argument. Also, should the third person side with one side then they may force out the remaining person, in short like with chromosomes many times three person relationships are just bad news.
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