Adventuring in Undermountain, anyone?

[Jason_Firewalker]

As for a duskblade, I really suggest it be done, with all that we need at low level a powerful battle caster is a good thing

[Jason_Firewalker]

My Character again with changes to stats

Name: Coda Alera

Race: Sun Elf (-2 Con, +2 Int, LLV, Elf Abilities)

Class: Evoker 1 (A Specialist Wizard with Prohibited Schools of Illusion and Necromancy)

Gender: Male

Height: 5'

Weight: 109



Strength: 11
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 12
Intellegince: 20
Wisdom 11
Charisma 16

HP: 20
AC: 11
Touch: 11
Flat Footed: 9

Flaws:
Vulnerable (-1 to AC for a Feat, See Unearthed Arcana)

Feats:
Scribe Scroll (Like All Wizards)
Combat Casting
Percocious Apprentice (Gives me a free extra second level spell slot, see Complete Arcane)
Summon Familiar (Toad named PacMan)

Base Attack Bonus: +0
Ranged Attack Bonus: +2
Melee Attack Bonus: +0

Saves:
--- Fortitude: +1
--- Reflex: +2
--- Will: +2

Spells Known:
0 - All but Illusion And Necromancy
1 - Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Sheild, Burning Hands, Hail Of Stone, Lesser Orb Of Cold, Orb Of Sound Lesser, Sleep
2 - Scorching Ray

Spells Per Day (Will Post Each Day If Required As I Change It):
0 - Read Magic, Detect Magic, Detect Magic
1 - Mage Armor, Sleep, Burning Hands, Magic Missile
2 - Scorching Ray, Scorching Ray

Class Skills:

- Concentration +5 (+9 in combat) (4 Ranks, +1 from Con)
- Knowledge Arcana +9 (4 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge Religion +9 (4 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge Dungeneering +7 (2 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge Nature +7 (2 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge Local +7 (2 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge Nobility And Royalty +7 (2 ranks, +5 from Int)
- Knowledge The Planes +6 (1 Rank, + 5 from Int)
- Knowledge History +6 (1 Rank, +5 from Int)
- Decipher Script +7 (2 rranks, +5 from Int)
- Spellcraft +9 (4 ranks, +5 from Int)

Cross-Class Skills:

Spot: +2 (0 ranks, + 0 from Wis, +2 Elf bonus)
Listen: +2 (0 ranks, + 0 from Wis, +2 Elf bonus)
Search: +2 (0 ranks, + 0 from Wis, +2 Elf bonus)

Possessions:
Backpack
Bedroll
4 Days Trail Rations
1 Days Water
Spell Book (200 Pages)
Parchament (50 Sheets)
3 Spell Component Pouches
Ink & Pen
3 Pouches
2 Travelers Outfits

Platnum -- None
Gold -- 7
Silver -- 8
Copper -- 9


Also with this addition:

Languages:
Common
Elven
Celestial
Draconic
Giant
Sylvan
Dwarven

[rhoenix]

As for a duskblade, I really suggest it be done, with all that we need at low level a powerful battle caster is a good thing

Well, that's the thing - as a Duskblade, my character would have some buffs, and some single-target spells, and that's it. A Duskblade doesn't make a good Blaster. However, they can be exceptionally good at delivering an ass-whipping to a single target.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Hey, you do not get two scorching rays. Rogue already told you about that. ANd you have to make a caster level check to use the one scorching ray you have

[Jason_Firewalker]

The duskblade is the quinessential sniper character, but an even better choice is to use your spellcraft ability to make new spells for your list. That way you can get stuff and things such as fireball and blindness/deafness

[rhoenix]

The duskblade is the quinessential sniper character, but an even better choice is to use your spellcraft ability to make new spells for your list. That way you can get stuff and things such as fireball and blindness/deafness

Now there's a thought.

Hey Rogue9, would you allow my character, as a Duskblade, to make his own spells with a high enough Spellcraft / Knowledge: Arcana, such as Blindness/Deafness?

[General Havoc]

Even if he doesn't, you can bet I will be taking Blindness/Deafness, and be all too happy to deploy it against the "Sons of iniquity" that we shall no doubt be facing.

I'm starting to like the idea of blasting someone's defenses wide open, crippling them with evil debuffs, and then sort of waving in the damage dealers to carve them to pieces.

[Jason_Firewalker]

Hey, you do not get two scorching rays. Rogue already told you about that. ANd you have to make a caster level check to use the one scorching ray you have

Actually Rogue and I were speaking about that but my contention is that since I have a high enough Intellegince mod to my character that I might get bonus spells of that level, it doesnt really say yes or no on that... so we are both a little confused and are working it out

[rhoenix]

I'm starting to like the idea of blasting someone's defenses wide open, crippling them with evil debuffs, and then sort of waving in the damage dealers to carve them to pieces.

Between you and Nitram's builds, this could get really raunchy - like to the point where porn music should start playing when we get into a battle.

And I'm leaning more and more toward the Duskblade, and his build will be anti-single target primarily. If anyone has any suggestions as to feats, please let me know, since I was tentatively going to go the Spring Attack route for feats, considering that he'll more than likely be using a greatsword.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Hey, you do not get two scorching rays. Rogue already told you about that. ANd you have to make a caster level check to use the one scorching ray you have

Actually Rogue and I were speaking about that but my contention is that since I have a high enough Intellegince mod to my character that I might get bonus spells of that level, it doesnt really say yes or no on that... so we are both a little confused and are working it out

I am going to weigh in, as someone who has that feat as well and say no. You can barely cast that spell as is, having to make a caster level check to avoid a fizzle. It makes no sense to get your bonus spells for high int with it.

[SirNitram]

Honestly, my build isn't a blaster. It's damage will drop off precipitously compared to everyone else. This is designed. It's not meant to deal damage. It's meant to slap 'Save or lose' or 'No save, just lose' penalties on everything we find so the party can do their thing.

My god, my main mode of attack always offers a chance for half-damage!

[Jason_Firewalker]

Hey, you do not get two scorching rays. Rogue already told you about that. ANd you have to make a caster level check to use the one scorching ray you have

Actually Rogue and I were speaking about that but my contention is that since I have a high enough Intellegince mod to my character that I might get bonus spells of that level, it doesnt really say yes or no on that... so we are both a little confused and are working it out

I am going to weigh in, as someone who has that feat as well and say no. You can barely cast that spell as is, having to make a caster level check to avoid a fizzle. It makes no sense to get your bonus spells for high int with it.

I can honestly see it go either way so lets leave it up to rogue 9

[rhoenix]

Honestly, my build isn't a blaster. It's damage will drop off precipitously compared to everyone else. This is designed. It's not meant to deal damage. It's meant to slap 'Save or lose' or 'No save, just lose' penalties on everything we find so the party can do their thing.

My god, my main mode of attack always offers a chance for half-damage!

That was actually my point. Between your build above, and Havoc's proposed build, you two plus some good assault-types would make for a hilarious fight.

[SirNitram]

A Warblade and Duskblade walking through the flames that are entangling people is hilariously awesome.

[B4UTRUST]

If anyone's willing to toss me some help trying to develop the skill monkey I'd appreciate it. I'm debating between three currently.

Human Rogue
Changeling Rogue
Human Factorum

[rhoenix]

If anyone's willing to toss me some help trying to develop the skill monkey I'd appreciate it. I'm debating between three currently.

Human Rogue
Changeling Rogue
Human Factorum

I'm not sure about the Factorum, but I'd lean toward the Changeling Rogue, for a number of reasons. That would effortlessly make your character both Face & Skillmonkey.

[SirNitram]

Factotum is nice for a skillmonkey simply for having 10+Int(And Int is their big stat) skills and all skills as class. Their special abilities can be hit or miss, but the sheer skill madness is great.

[Hotfoot]

1. What the hell is a Factotum, where are they from, and why are you delving into that which man was not meant to know?

2. Rogue 9: How about that Pixie Rogue?

[Jason_Firewalker]

Well I am just not to happy with the overall sustainability of a factorum, they kinda blow their wad real fast if your not careful so I would go with a human rogue

[Rogue 9]

The duskblade is the quinessential sniper character, but an even better choice is to use your spellcraft ability to make new spells for your list. That way you can get stuff and things such as fireball and blindness/deafness

...

Where the hell did you get that idea? If classes with limited spell lists could do that, you would think it would turn up a lot more in the uber-cheese builds CharOp throws around.

[Rogue 9]

The duskblade is the quinessential sniper character, but an even better choice is to use your spellcraft ability to make new spells for your list. That way you can get stuff and things such as fireball and blindness/deafness

...

Where the hell did you get that idea? If classes with limited spell lists could do that, you would think it would turn up a lot more in the uber-cheese builds CharOp throws around.

Actually Rogue and I were speaking about that but my contention is that since I have a high enough Intellegince mod to my character that I might get bonus spells of that level, it doesnt really say yes or no on that... so we are both a little confused and are working it out

I am going to weigh in, as someone who has that feat as well and say no. You can barely cast that spell as is, having to make a caster level check to avoid a fizzle. It makes no sense to get your bonus spells for high int with it.

I can honestly see it go either way so lets leave it up to rogue 9

You're damned straight you will, seeing how I'm the DM. Seeing how everything is up to me, you don't need to go stating the bloody obvious like you're somehow being generous by letting me play my role.

1. What the hell is a Factotum, where are they from, and why are you delving into that which man was not meant to know?

2. Rogue 9: How about that Pixie Rogue?

Factotums are from the Dungeonscape supplement. They're really not all that great; they're more jack-of-all-trades than the bard is. They have "inspiration points" that they can use to emulate class features of other classes, but at a much lower effective level than a character of the class, and they can't do it a whole lot. As for pixie rogues... The level adjustment on a pixie is huge. I've seen it allowed before, but that was for an endurance run through the World's Largest Dungeon; a rogue with permanent improved invisibility is fucking scary.

[Hotfoot]

It's a hell of a long way to go for a gag, but damn it all if I didn't wish I could have seen Rogue's face when he finally got clued in....

(08:03:35 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Hi.
(08:03:47 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: You do realize pixies have improved invisibility at will, right?
(08:03:58 PM) HotfootB5: yeah
(08:04:11 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: And that this campaign's starting at first level?
(08:04:22 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Where that level adjustment would put you far and away above the other characters?
(08:04:47 PM) HotfootB5: it's nice, no question, but its primary use in a combat situation is constant sneak attacks, which is mitigated early on by crappy weapon damage.
(08:05:04 PM) HotfootB5: any weapon that allows sneak attack damage is at d4-2
(08:05:46 PM) HotfootB5: The extra sneak attack dice don't come until much later, at which point the other characters are at rough parity
(08:05:57 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: You can sneak attack with a bloody greatsword if you feel like it.
(08:06:03 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Just to point it out.
(08:06:18 PM) HotfootB5: well, I could, but my chance to hit with -4 strength sucks
(08:06:23 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: It's not the done thing, but the ability doesn't have any weapon restrictions.
(08:06:30 PM) HotfootB5: and you only get weapon finesse on light weapons
(08:06:41 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Ahhhhhhh.
(08:06:59 PM) HotfootB5: which means d4 range for small characters
(08:07:22 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: "I only do 1d4!"
(08:07:25 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Heh.
(08:07:32 PM) HotfootB5: 1d4-2, no less
(08:07:43 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Of course, there's also the little trouble of them having polymorph...
(08:07:44 PM) HotfootB5: well, -2 on average
(08:07:52 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: So you can do considerably more than that whenever you feel like.
(08:08:06 PM) HotfootB5: actually, they don't have that anymore in 3.5
(08:08:10 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Oh.

You can almost hear the wheels turning at this point. He knows I'm up to something, since I know something he doesn't. This was my first hint that I knew more than I was letting on...

(08:09:51 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: You realize Weapon Finesse requires +1 Base Attack Bonus, so you can't take it as a first level rogue, right?
(08:10:04 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Your to-hit is going to fucking suck no matter what you do at least until 3rd.
(08:10:09 PM) HotfootB5: I know
(08:10:23 PM) HotfootB5: It's a risk I have to take
(08:11:06 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: And third level will be a long time coming. Assuming I have a fit of temporary insanity and allow this, you'll be getting XP as a fifth level character thanks to your level adjustment; you'd advance a lot slower than the rest of the party.
(08:11:17 PM) HotfootB5: Right, I know

Oh yes, I know...

(08:12:25 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Wait a minute. They get Weapon Finesse as a racial bonus feat?!?

Oh, if I only had a camera...it begins...

(08:12:34 PM) HotfootB5: well, yeah
(08:12:36 PM) HotfootB5: and dodge
(08:12:54 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Jesus...
(08:13:13 PM) HotfootB5: I take it you just looked up the stats?
(08:13:20 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Yes.
(08:13:27 PM) HotfootB5: :D
(08:15:25 PM) HotfootB5: So the 60 flight (good), 15+level SR, DR 10/Cold Iron, numerous spell like abilities, +1 natural armor +1 size AC, and stat line of -4 str, +8 Dex, +6 INT, +4 WIS, and +6 CHA are all cool, right?
(08:15:44 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Ummmm...
(08:15:56 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: The dungeon wouldn't even be a challenge until about 6th level.
(08:16:01 PM) HotfootB5: :D
(08:16:11 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Hell, I can only think of one guy in there who even has a cold iron weapon.
(08:17:49 PM) HotfootB5: So I can totally go ahead, rite? :D
(08:18:10 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: Tell me. Do I look crazy to you?
(08:18:13 PM) Rogue 9 Nine: :p
(08:19:59 PM) HotfootB5: I dunno, you're running 3.5... ;)

I am a bad, bad man.

[Rogue 9]

The look wasn't all that shocked, actually; I just didn't know the Weapon Finesse part. There wasn't a snowball's chance in Hell that was going to happen. I've seen pixie rogues played, and know exactly what they can do.

[Hotfoot]

You knew what they could do under 3.0, maybe, but come on, the DR/SR stuff had to have been a little jarring :P

[Rogue 9]

Actually, I knew what they could do earlier in 3.5, before the polymorph ability fell victim to the errata. I already knew when we started that it wasn't happening; I just prefer to try and talk a player out of it before I say no.