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[Destructionator XV]

The Empire built Death Star II in six months, whose volume is 3.8E17 m³.

They build half of Death Star II in allegedaly six months.

And volume comparisons are not a good measure of if they can build ships at a fast rate. Most a Death Star would be giant fuel tanks to power the superlaser (even wank unobtainum fuel that Star Wars apparently uses has got to take up space, especially to create a 10^38 J blast). A star destroyer would surely have other things it needs in that volume, like delicate computer parts and life support.

Moreover, you need skilled manpower to crew those ships, which is an entirely separate concern.


Not that it matters anyway. We should just fork entirely off from Star Wars canon for this. If you don't like a part of SW, just toss it out. Internal consistency and balance for Phoenix War is what matters.

EU sources

The problem with the Star Wars EU is it is hard to write intelligent stories when your hands are firmly placed on your penis.



But something to keep in mind is the US Navy has under 300 ships, including 11 carriers, 13 amphibious assualt craft, 25 submarines, 22 cruisers, 50 destroyers, and a bunch other ships (probably support ships; I don't know for sure). The US Navy is also the largest in the world.

20,000 ISDs is workable, but still is pretty small if they have a million systems. 100,000 almost feels too big looking at the USN for comparison, but since the Empire surely has a far bigger military budget than the United States, it works.




I am also probably going to slash the size of the A'millian Star Empire in my own canon too (not sure yet. need to crunch some more numbers), since I have been refactoring it. In the Phoenix War canon, they have 50,000 ships in the Federal fleet, ranging from tankers and transports up to the big ships like the carriers. I think this feels too big though, as it means each major base is supporting over 200 vessels. I could say that includes things like dropships perhaps. I just need to crunch more numbers. (Not that it matters much for PW anyway, since the old numbers are canon in this timeline, but I like my sci-fi world to make full internal sense and actually be somewhat realistic.)


EDIT:

BTW, what happened to the Zergs? Where's DF?

He posted yesterday or the day before. The Zerg are taking care of their rogue problem.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

And the FRAKKING Cylons! *whir-whir-whir-whir-whir...*

Ooh! OOH! And-



I kid, I kid. I think we should keep the number of players as they are now, but if anyone wants to join, let 'em.

Thinking of the Cylons, why don't we have the Twelve Colonies joining the STGOD right now instead of PWIV?

See, we can actually make this PWIII a totally open game; anyone can jump into the game at anytime --provided they adhere to continuity, of course. I'm actually thinking of inviting Josh to play as the Imperium of Man again.

[Ra]

1. Yeah, I do actually think it would be best to ignore SW canon to keep the game balanced.

2. Oh, and Kresh, maybe you should invent a good reason for your character to come back into the Milky Way galaxy sometime soon so I can accelerate the Madar plot.

3. And I'm still up in the air about the whole PW IV thing. I've actually considered killing off Ra altogether at the end of this game so I can assume control of my own original sci-fi civilization (yes, I made one a few years back), much like Adam is doing with the A'millians.

I personally think it would be much more interesting if we all STGOD'ed with our own civilizations, rather than the Goa'uld or Empire, but not everyone has the patience or the desire to go through making their own space society.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

2. Oh, and Kresh, maybe you should invent a good reason for your character to come back into the Milky Way galaxy sometime soon so I can accelerate the Madar plot.

I'm still waiting for Allen's reply, though. DK will be back to the Milky Way --either as a Viceroy or a civilian.

[Ra]

I personally think a viceroy or Grand Moff would be best.

[Destructionator XV]

I'm still waiting for Allen's reply

Allen doesn't always follow our thread based on how little he posts, so if you want a speedier reply, it is probably best to PM him a link so you have his attention.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The Empire built Death Star II in six months, whose volume is 3.8E17 m³.

They build half of Death Star II in allegedaly six months.

And volume comparisons are not a good measure of if they can build ships at a fast rate.

Alright, let's assume that they only build a quarter of the Death Star; that would be approximately a million of Star Destroyers in six months. Cut the number again into 1/8 of the Death Star, and that is sill 500,000 Star Destroyers.

That's why I don't actually believe the 25,000 Star Destroyers the EU states; EU figures actually underestimate SW power.

I personally think a viceroy or Grand Moff would be best.

Well, I wonder what should Darth Kreshna do if the President (played by Allen) rejects his proposal. Should DK resign from his position? Should the President put him on 'temporary vacation'? Should he stay as the Viceroy of Imperial Mandate?

[Ra]

DK needs to stay put as the enforcer of the Imperial Mandate. Quite frankly, it might even be interesting if you went, "fuck the Prez he doesn't understand what's going on out here", and maintained your position, if not some lame outright rebellion. You should not just give up, resign, and walk away. That'll derail every plot I have going, if not most of the game.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

DK needs to stay put as the enforcer of the Imperial Mandate. Quite frankly, it might even be interesting if you went, "fuck the Prez he doesn't understand what's going on out here", and maintained your position, if not some lame outright rebellion.

Okay, but rebelling against the Empire will be a big no-no DK may have a Death Star, the Empire sill has two.

[Ra]

Thus why I said a rebellion would be lame. I just don't want your character quitting on us right now.

[Destructionator XV]

I personally think it would be much more interesting if we all STGOD'ed with our own civilizations

A-FUCKING-MEN

Really, having our own civilization would kick the shit out of other things for so many reasons:

1. No canon debates.
2. No arbitrary limitations. (But there would be limitations, for balance's sake)
3. No working around other bullshit from incompetent authors.
4. More originality.
5. More potential players.
6. Balance is restored.
7. Just more fun. World building is the fucking tits, even if you just do it on a smaller scale (no need to work out as many details as I have, for example, but if you do, it is awesome to do).
8. More fun to read too. I am a big fan of seeing other, new sci-fi, and possibly incorporating it into my own world. This would open up strange new worlds, new life forms and new civilizations.

Of course such a thing would not be related to the PW at all, but all the better, since we would be ridding ourselves of the crud that has been building up. We could play many parts of our stuff from here though; the A'millians would certainly be there (probably as my newest refactoring rather than exactly as you see them now, and that might be adjusted even more as well for balance or whatever), Darth Kreshna could be there, just as his own guy instead of for the Empire, etc.

I am so all for this. A whole new game with wholly original civilizations is simply a good idea.

[Ra]

Heh, I saw this just immediately after I shot you a PM, Adam. I'm glad you like the idea, and I wholeheartedly agree with every one of your points. Worldbuilding kicks ass, and the characters you create are so much more interesting than shoehorning elves and snakeheads into a game.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Heh, I saw this just immediately after I shot you a PM, Adam. I'm glad you like the idea, and I wholeheartedly agree with every one of your points. Worldbuilding kicks ass, and the characters you create are so much more interesting than shoehorning elves and snakeheads into a game.

Actually, Ra and Galadriel are the most interesting characters in the whole PW saga. But of course, that's just me.

[Destructionator XV]

Actually, Ra and Galadriel are the most interesting characters in the whole PW saga.

I think much of the reason for that is they really aren't much like the canon versions of themselves at all. Ra is just a one dimensional villain in Stargate, appearing only in the movie. In PW, he is nothing like that, at all. Realistically, the character of Ra could be ripped out of PW, optionally renamed, and dropped down just about anywhere else and still work.

I would point to Ra as being the perfect example of why our own universes and characters beat taking someone else's with ease.

[Ra]

Precisely. Look at even Darth Kreshna; you could take him and dump his character just about anywhere, like nBSG or some moder-earth drama, and he would still be a great character. The fact that he's a Sith or has the Phoenix are merely anchorages to Wars and Marvel canon.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Precisely. Look at even Darth Kreshna; you could take him and dump his character just about anywhere, like nBSG or some moder-earth drama, and he would still be a great character. The fact that he's a Sith or has the Phoenix are merely anchorages to Wars and Marvel canon.

Yes, but that would pose some continuity problems. How to explain Darth Kreshna as a nBSG colonial officer, for example?

[Destructionator XV]

Yes, but that would pose some continuity problems. How to explain Darth Kreshna as a nBSG colonial officer, for example?

You eliminate existing continuity for a new universe. Change his backstory from TIE fighter pilot to Viper pilot and boom! new Kreshna. Maybe change Phoenix Force to some other supernatural phonomenon.

But all his present time characterization would still be valid, no matter where he is.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The President looked supremely smug, as he stared Darth Kreshna in the eye, "And it gives me GREAT happiness, to tell you this. As of this moment, your vessal is under confine, and you are under arrest. You will submit yourself to my authority...at such time I will have you escorted back to your ship, and then taken back to the border of the Galaxy. Where you go from there, I will not care. We will not bother you, Lord Kreshna, I will even ceeded to you, the Imperial holdings in that galaxy, all bases and colonies, to your authority. It will be up to you, to keep them running. We will allow any voleenteers to stay there, but all Imperial Personel will return to us."

The President's smug grin told volumes, as he leaned back in his chair, steepled his fingers, "You are dismissed Lord Kreshna...enjoy your new little empire. Now get the hell out of my office."

Alright, Allen. I don't quite understand: did you just give the Milky Way to me?

You know, in real world, it took a bloody war for the United States to gain independece from the British Empire. Latin American countries also struggled to gain independence from Spain. Indonesia (my own country) also fought bitterly to gain independence from Dutch colonialism..... (EDIT: and in StarCraft, when self-proclaimed Emperor Mengsk declared the Terran Dominion, the UED actually sent an expeditionary force to take it back.)

.....and now the President of the Galactic Empire just handed the Milky Way to Darth Kreshna FOR NOTHING???? He just granted independence to Darth Kreshna, just like that??

Frankly, I don't know how to write. I'm not sure how Darth Kreshna should react. Should he be angered? Or should he be excited? First I thought DK --an Imperial patriot he is (like Captain America)-- should be disappointed, but he should eventually realize that the Imperial Mandate of Milky Way galaxy has become his own property; all the riches, all the raw materials, all the cheap fuels --it becomes his own private possession. Maybe now he should found his own private corporation to handle his properties at Milky Way Galaxy. Maybe Imperial corporations (KDY, Tagge Mining Corp, etc) will just court him to gain privileges in his new nation now. Maybe DK will just turn his Death Star to the biggest gambling and prostitution center at Milky Way, and change its name to "New Las Vegas" or such.

What do you think? How Darth Kreshna should react? How the President's decision will affect the political and business climate in Milky Way? Frankly, I'm still not sure what I'm gonna' write. Any suggestion?

Meanwhile, I think I'm gonna' write something else. I'm still not sure how DK should react.

But hey, anyone watched The Mask of Zorro? Maybe Lord Adam will turn into a secret masked hero, 'The Mask of Adam', to defend the poor and fight against social injustice in Don Kreshna's new land?

[Destructionator XV]

.....and now the President of the Galactic Empire just handed the Milky Way to Darth Kreshna FOR NOTHING???? He just granted independence to Darth Kreshna, just like that??

The Dark Lord did have much control over it already, and the forces allocated to it are his personal Sith fleet. This is probably something they see as no big deal.

How Darth Kreshna should react?

Baffled, bewildered, confused, just like you are now. Then it can grow into probably a feeling of abandonment, disappointment, possibly leading to anger, but eventually, I figure he would realize he just gained some, but lost a lot too.

How the President's decision will affect the political and business climate in Milky Way?

Definitely big. When news of this reaches the others, many of them will see it as a big victory. Some might see it as the Empire running scared, some might see it as a big disappointment since they will lose what the Empire had to offer.

Maybe Lord Adam will turn into a secret masked hero, 'The Mask of Adam', to defend the poor and fight against social injustice in Don Kreshna's new land?

Pretty unlikely. His motives are long term security of his people. When he hears about the President's decision, he is going to consider it mission accomplished.


And we still have the Trollish Imperial attack on my base to do. Dartzap needs to return to continue that! Remember according to the time line, this battle would be some time before Kreshna's meeting. It started at about the same time as DK took the Phoenix leaving for Coruscant, and it would have taken him quite some travel time to get there.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

By the way, a little bit nitpick, Allen:

While you have been galavanting around your precious Milky Way, in your goverment paid for Death Star, flying about in your fleet so generously paid for by tax-payer money...

Uh, the Death Star Three was built on Milky Way galaxy shorly before the arrival of the Guardians, utilizing the resources of empty planets there (exploited by World Devastators).

.....and now the President of the Galactic Empire just handed the Milky Way to Darth Kreshna FOR NOTHING???? He just granted independence to Darth Kreshna, just like that??

The Dark Lord did have much control over it already, and the forces allocated to it are his personal Sith fleet. This is probably something they see as no big deal.

Uh, it is a big deal. Previously, Darth Kreshna acted on behalf of the Galactic Empire, now he is released from the burden.

Of course, like 16th century Spanish governors in the New World, DK had some degree of authority, but he was still bound by obligations to his motherland. All the resources, the raw materials, the manufactured goods produced in the resource-rich Milky Way, the ships built by KDY spacedocks; a big portion of them were sent back to the home galaxy. That's also the reason why European nations were not eager to let their colonies declaring independence.

Now, like the President said, the Imperial Mandate is now DK's "little empire", so perhaps DK would just apply for a Trollish Citizenship and build a private business entity out of his Milky Way assets. What's the name of the corporation should be? "New World Incorporated"?


EDIT: Alright, I'm still not sure how the story should continue, and here's the reason:

At first, I thought this STGOD will be like Babylon Five after the Shadow War... Where the Empire would have been ruled by a President Clark-esque President, and Darth Kreshna will be more like John Sheridan, trying hard to keep a balance between Imperial (not-so-benevolent) interests and those of other nations, as well as keeping peace and stability around the region.

However, Adam's posts changed everything. As much as Darth Kreshna was baffled by the A'millans sudden demand to disarm the Death Star, me (OOC) was also surprised by the A'millan antagonistic stance against the Empire. After the end of the Empire/Guardian War, I thought those countries should be at peace with each other (just like the Trolls and the Empire cooperating in a joint mission at the beginning of PW3), but then the ASE just

And after the bombing attack aboard the Death Star, I imagine Allen (as the Empire) would support a war against the A'millan Star Empire; "Operation Infinite Justice" or such. I thought the STGOD would evolve that way, with our fictional equivalents of Fox News, Donald Rumsfeld, "Lord Adam" Hussein, Osama Bin Khardem, and such.

Now President Steelmore just granted Darth Kreshna an independence. I'm still not sure where the story would be heading to.

Oh, but Dartzap needs not to worry: the Star Destroyers are still there to assist the Trolls.

[Ra]

KAN, that's what makes this game kick so much ass; you don't know what's gonna happen next, and your plans don't always come to pass. Instead of B5 Redux, we have something completely different. Be a Sith for once and realize that you have your own empire to yourself now! It's a pretty awesome and unexpected change in the game's pace.

First we wanted a B5-esque game, then it evolved toward War on Terror: In SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!. Now, it's evolved into something completely different; the New Sith Empire, with the Zerg Swarm and the Goa'uld in the mix, all competing (whether peacefully or not) over the Milky Way galaxy.

And anyway, KAN, since I'm trying to arrange a big duel between you and Madar, here's how I want it to go down: You win, but it's after a very long and grueling lightsaber battle. The Phoenix and Madar's Force Lightning need not be involved, though Prequel-triology style acrobatics and OT-style TK'ing of random objects would be cool. I just want it to be a general sword battle, because those rock.

Madar has less experience than you, but she's highly aggressive and is hellbent on a singular purpose. It won't be easy, for either of them. But the plan is that in the end you offer her to become your new Sith apprentice, or die. She accepts, and is basically your new right-hand woman in the galaxy. Ra or Baal give you shit? Send her out to assasinate them. Or more practically, she could do spying and intelligence missions for you, basically be your best agent. Buscan and Nica could become acolytes of minor significance, I suppose. What do you think?

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

KAN, that's what makes this game kick so much ass; you don't know what's gonna happen next, and your plans don't always come to pass.

Agree. However, how long until DK eventually realizes that he just received a blessing in disguise?

And anyway, KAN, since I'm trying to arrange a big duel between you and Madar, here's how I want it to go down: You win, but it's after a very long and grueling lightsaber battle. The Phoenix and Madar's Force Lightning need not be involved, though Prequel-triology style acrobatics and OT-style TK'ing of random objects would be cool. I just want it to be a general sword battle, because those rock.

Agree. In fact, the Phoenix Force in a duel with Madar won't be fun since it's too powerful, so to make the duel exciting, we need to put the Phoenix away. Question is: how? Any idea? Plot devices?

Madar has less experience than you, but she's highly aggressive and is hellbent on a singular purpose. It won't be easy, for either of them.

Are we talking about sex here?

What do you think?

Actually I'm interested in such possibility, although I'm still concerned how Irene would react. Yeah, of course, it will be strictly a relationship between Master and Apprentice, but once it involves chains and whips....

[Destructionator XV]

However, Adam's posts changed everything.

That was their intent.

As much as Darth Kreshna was baffled by the A'millans sudden demand to disarm the Death Star, me (OOC) was also surprised by the A'millan antagonistic stance against the Empire.

The out of character thing that triggered me was the hyperspace orbiting probe. The Empire just has too much crap that I hate thanks to the EU and I want them all dead dead dead.

In character, it was the same event that put him over the edge. At that point it was obvious this evil galactic empire was everywhere trying to be all knowing, and obviously having big guns.

At this point it was clear to him that the Empire had no respect for anyone's privacy and if they wanted to steamroll everyone, which it looks like given what he saw them doing, they could. Add to that the bitter taste from PW I of them attacking us, and you get fear.

Fear leads to anger, you know the drill. And it could be reasoned rationally; I went over this before so will not do so again.

And after the bombing attack aboard the Death Star, I imagine Allen (as the Empire) would support a war against the A'millan Star Empire

The beauty is the Empire is so far away, this incident was insigificant to the Empire as a whole, and you did not conclusively prove anything. Added to that that the little guys almost always distrust and hate / fear the big guys, attacking would just cause more trouble than it is worth.

Look at Iraq. Is it really worth it? The Empire's president apparently feels that no, it isn't, especially with the plausible deniability of the ASE.

Oh, but Dartzap needs not to worry: the Star Destroyers are still there to assist the Trolls.

The best part will be ISD vs ion cannon. He needs to hurry up and post!

Agree. In fact, the Phoenix Force in a duel with Madar won't be fun since it's too powerful, so to make the duel exciting, we need to put the Phoenix away. Question is: how? Any idea? Plot devices?

It could be that the WTF of being granted independence messes up his concentration or something, weakening its power. That would work, at least temporarily.

[Ra]

However, how long until DK eventually realizes that he just received a blessing in disguise?

It depends. Maybe he could realize it mid-way home, or maybe during or even after the duel.

I could see Madar going, "dude you've got your own GALAXY now, make use of it!", but I could also see you going, before she shows up, "Damn the President, he sent me out here and gave me all this fiefdom to rule without his help... rule... WHOA, this whole bitch is MINE now?! As in, Absolute Ruler? Sweet..."

Agree. In fact, the Phoenix Force in a duel with Madar won't be fun since it's too powerful, so to make the duel exciting, we need to put the Phoenix away. Question is: how? Any idea? Plot devices?

I was thinking of just having her sneak onto the DS III with her Asgard transporter, or somesuch to get her there. As you're walking to your estate aboard the station, alone, suddenly you here the whip and buzz of a Lightsaber, and Madar greets you. Expostion, blah blah, fight begins.

It could be that the WTF of being granted independence messes up his concentration or something, weakening its power. That would work, at least temporarily.

Also a great suggestion.

Are we talking about sex here?

Actually I'm interested in such possibility, although I'm still concerned how Irene would react. Yeah, of course, it will be strictly a relationship between Master and Apprentice, but once it involves chains and whips....

Madar's an obsessive freak, really. She had a troubled time growing up (though much of her backstory has yet to be fleshed out in my mind), and was raised in the rigor and hate-fueled life of the Dark Jedi Academy.

In other words, she's too obsessed with her own rise to power and afterward she's got to prove herself to you (like how some female Drill Sergeants act like total evil hardasses to prove they're as tough as the males), so she won't be hopping in bed with you anytime soon.

Madar is probably a bit asexual, as a result of her singlemindedness and (albeit evil) zeal. Her relationship with Meryetre is very close and friendly, and she even kissed Ra, but these are more examples of her manipulating people, rather than giving into her own lusts.

Passion is a big thing to Madar, and it's the first tenet of the Sith Code (Peace is a Lie, there is only Passion), but it usually manifests itself in the form of her passionately throwing herself into a fight or into some cause, like fighting with the lightsaber. It's never really been said, but there has never been any sign, for example, that Madar has ever had relations with Buscan (or Nica), despite him being her number two guy for years. Buscan and Nica? Yes. He likes brain tails and she likes sex. Buscan and Madar? No.

Still. A possible character conflict between Madar and Irene would be awesome, because it would add depth to the game. Irene might think Madar is fucking DK to get his blessing, and way at the end (after all kinds of shit has flown, teeth are bared, and all that stuff) Madar reveals that she only cares about furthering her own power and her own position, nothing more.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

However, how long until DK eventually realizes that he just received a blessing in disguise?

It depends. Maybe he could realize it mid-way home, or maybe during or even after the duel.

I could see Madar going, "dude you've got your own GALAXY now, make use of it!", but I could also see you going, before she shows up, "Damn the President, he sent me out here and gave me all this fiefdom to rule without his help... rule... WHOA, this whole bitch is MINE now?! As in, Absolute Ruler? Sweet..."

Great idea!!

Okay, Darth Kreshna is heading back to the Milky Way now. Also I propose we have things like moral conflict of such.

DK: I am an Imperial! I have duty to my country!!
Madar: Not anymore, darling. The Empire just threw you away, and now you rule your own galaxy. So what do you think about THAT??