Lucifer vs Nyarlathotep

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Both references are taken from wiki:

Lucifer

In modern and late Medieval Christian thought, Lucifer is a fallen angel commonly associated with Satan, the embodiment of evil and enemy of God. Lucifer is generally considered, based on the influence of Christian literature and legend, to have been a highly regarded angel in heaven, prior to having been motivated by pride to rebel against God. When the rebellion failed, Lucifer was cast out of heaven, along with a third of the heavenly host, and came to reside in the world.

Nyarlathotep

Nyarlathotep, however, is active and frequently walks the Earth in the guise of a human being, usually a tall, slim, joyous man. Most of them have their own cults serving them, while Nyarlathotep seems to serve them and take care of their affairs in their absence. Most of them use strange alien languages, while Nyarlathotep uses human languages and can be mistaken for a human being. Finally, most of them are all powerful yet purposeless, yet Nyarlathotep seems to be deliberately deceptive and manipulative.

So both of them walk on Earth: one is the embodiment of evil and enemy of God, the other is the servant of Azathoth; one is the Biblical Devil, the other is the Lovecraftian 'Devil'. Both are looking to dominate all human being on Earth to serve their hideous purpose. Eventually, they start crossing sword with each other. Who'll win?

[B4UTRUST]

Nyarlathotep, his evil and power extends far beyond the comprehension of man. He's a god that has existed longer then there has been life on earth. Lucifer just can't compete...

[frigidmagi]

Lucifer is Satan. Also called the Morningstar and assocated with the Dawn.
Assuming we are using classical interuption of Gensis and Judeo-Christian Myths. He was thrown out of Heaven before the creation of mankind (therefore he also predates man).

As the Adversery he is responible for the temption of mankind usually via forbidden knowledge (see eve and tree of the knowledge of good and evil)or through power (see temption of Christ).

What he is not is a red skinned, goat footed humanoid this being a mocking representation used by medieval artist.

[SirNitram]

Nyarl, being a Lovecraftian 'God', is a being whose powers dwarf human comprehension, while people are apparently quite able to comprehend Lucifer/Satan and he's really not that potent, forced to work primarily through trickery and bribery.

[The Grim Squeaker]

DC Lucifer uses him as a toothpick or talks him into using himself as a toothpick for Azaoth.

[frigidmagi]

while people are apparently quite able to comprehend Lucifer/Satan and he's really not that potent, forced to work primarily through trickery and bribery.

That's incorrect honestly. Satan uses trickery, bribery and such because his goal is to pull as many humans into damnation volunteerary as possible. This is does as a spite to God, who as already defeated Satan's main goal of mastery over the universe.

[SirNitram]

while people are apparently quite able to comprehend Lucifer/Satan and he's really not that potent, forced to work primarily through trickery and bribery.

That's incorrect honestly. Satan uses trickery, bribery and such because his goal is to pull as many humans into damnation volunteerary as possible. This is does as a spite to God, who as already defeated Satan's main goal of mastery over the universe.

Well, what's his powers? Most depictions of him limit him to shapeshifting, eating three guys at once(Dante's Inferno is just fucked up, folks), and other minor deeds.

[frigidmagi]

Are we counting works of fiction or just religious works? I'll need to know for the search.

I am assumig for example that we are not counting various comic book versions correct?

[frigidmagi]

Alright Nitram and I have agreed to certain condaintions.

1: The works referred to for Satan shall be the Bible and other religious works meant to be of a theological nature.

2: Comics, fictional novels and movies shall not be applied.

3: For the purpose of this debate the Bible shall be taken in literal terms. (i.e the stance that Creationist Churches take in the modern world).

If anyone disagrees state so now and why these condaintions should not hold.

[Dark Silver]

For purpose of this debate, I will be watching, as the two involved in this are moderators of this forum. If it goes to the point of fallacy (which I doubt it shall considering the two sides), I will handle things.


I find no fault with those terms.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Okay, so based on Bible/theological standpoint alone (no comics, no movies, etc), what's the worst Lucifer can do?

[SirNitram]

Okay, so based on Bible/theological standpoint alone (no comics, no movies, etc), what's the worst Lucifer can do?

Preliminary skims show he was one of God's highest angels before the Fall; it's questionable on whether he retained those powers afterwards. He also smites a guy with boils in Job. I note this is a skim.

[Shark Bait]

Okay, so based on Bible/theological standpoint alone (no comics, no movies, etc), what's the worst Lucifer can do?

Wage war against an all powerful all knowing god and pose a significant threat. A god that actually created the universe and all that is in it so i guess if we were going by that description of god it would mean that god would have created Nyarlanthotep.

And Lucifer would be up there in power to rival god and as we have seen from the bible he can make stuff happen but he tempts people cause a soul is tied in with free will. With the Nyarlanthotep he would not need to pull such temptations so i'd say he could level some huge dammage.

[SirNitram]

Wage war against an all powerful all knowing god and pose a significant threat.

For a 'Signifigant threat' God certainly doesn't bat an eye at Satan just showing up one day in the Book Of Job.

[frigidmagi]

Because Satan is already defeated when attempting to try it with a legion of angels at his back. For reasons I cannot explain Satan is allowed to enter his prensence.