Soceity and Duty.

[frigidmagi]

On my last thread I raised the idea that the members of a soceity owe certain duties to that soceity. That being a member of a working soceity benifits all those involved more than if they lived completely alone in a hunter gatherer existence and because of this they have a duty to keep soceity healthy and running. I would also suggest that soceity has certain duties to it's members. Soceity is in my view a contract that lays reponsbilities, duties and rights on all the involved.

Let us start by what Soceity owes it's members shall we? I am an American, some would say overly American at that. So I will use the soceity of the United States as the model for this discussion. Now soceity in the US attempts and prizes the idea of being Just and Free. Whether it is or not, is another discussion, take it to politics okay?

A Just society would owe it's members equal treatment under the law. A Jew is to be treated the same as a Christian who is treated the same as a Muslim who is treated the same as a Hindu under the laws of a Just Soceity. A women is treated the same as a man. A dark skinned man the same as a light skinned man and so on. A Just society would also owe it's members laws that were not themselves injust. Slavery, forced marriages and other such injustices do not belong in a Just soceity, as they mean unequal treatment before the law for different people. A Just soceity also owes terrible punishment upon those found breaking those laws. To be guilty of a crime is to be a thing of terror in a Just soceity, as it will not rest until you are found and will not have mercy upon you, no matter what your creed, race or gender.

A Free society owes it members liberty to conduct their own lives as they see fit. Freedom of speech, religion, assemby and even the right to own and use weaponary for self defense are part of this. I realize this is a very American view, but it also happens to be mine. Oppression has no place in a Free Soceity.

In a Just and Free soceity, members should be treated equally before the law, with all having the same rights and privilages. It should be noted, however, that certain behaviors are off limits in a soceity that is both Just and Free. You cannot engage in behavior that damages the rights and privilages of other without being punished for it. You for example cannot engage in human sarifice even if this a part of your religious belief, as the sarifice in question has the right to not be murdered.

Now what do the members of this soceity owe in return, generally speaking? Duties towards soceity should be meant to met 2 overall goals, the protection of this soceity from enemies, both foreign and domenstic and the maintainence of this soceity to ensure it's health and well being. These duties can be met in a myrid of ways. By serving in armed forces(read the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corp and Coast Guard) or emerengy reaction services (read firefighters, EMTs, Paramedics, recuse workers, police). By being reponsiblly and honestly politically invovled in the decision making process (note being involved just to secure your own privileges and rights do not count). By giving service by means civil and diplomatic. By behaving in a way that upholds the tenents of your soceity (in this case behaving in a Just and Free manner). Or lastly by providing the resources to ensure it's continuation (raw resources, manufactured goods, childern, money).

It is my belief that these duties exist on a sliding scale. That Soceity owes a family more than it owes a single person in most cases (this does not mean the rights of a single person are ignored, just that a family requires and is owed greater support from soceity). And those who do extremly well in a soceity owe it more (Bill Gates owes more to soceity than a homeless man for example).

Thoughts?

[Stofsk]

A Just society would also owe it's members laws that were not themselves injust. Slavery, forced marriages and other such injustices do not belong in a Just soceity, as they mean unequal treatment before the law for different people. A Just soceity also owes terrible punishment upon those found breaking those laws. To be guilty of a crime is to be a thing of terror in a Just soceity, as it will not rest until you are found and will not have mercy upon you, no matter what your creed, race or gender.

No mercy? Why isn't mercy a function of a Just society?

Mercy to even those guilty of crime is another aspect of that duty to all theme you're talking about. Society has a duty to those who live within it and even those who break the law are still part of society. The way prison works is likened to sweeping the problem under the rugs. The average person doesn't know what goes on in prison and I seriously doubt they'd want to know either.

The other part of showing mercy relates to the case-by-case study that typify the law and justice system of any country. The problem I have with blanket considerations like 'the guilty must be punished without mercy' is that not every case is equal. Not every criminal is the same. Some are worse, some made one mistake and pay for it, and some are genuinely remorseful.

I suppose it comes down to this: if you consider prison or the justice system's sole purpose being to punish those who break the law, rather than to rehabilitate those people back into society.

I'm not sure if this is what you wanted to discuss, but I read that paragraph and felt I should chime in with my perspective.

[frigidmagi]

That's fair. I should note that I was speaking of a Just soceity without any other balencing attribute. A Just soceity would go to great means to ensure that only the guilty are punished but at the same time Justice without any other balencing quality demands punishment be meted out. While there is nothing wrong with rehabitablition, it is not in my view a function of Justice.

As for the criminals one could note that by refusing to behave in a Just Manner they failed to uphold their duty to Soceity and in fact have done worst by preying on other members of this soceity, which could be viewed as an attack on soceity at large. While a Just and Free soceity could and may see it in it's best interest to extend mercy, a soley Just soceity would not. It is not Just to allow the guilty to escape full punishment for their misdeeds. In fact one may want to consider that a purely Just soceity could usher in the greatest tryannry ever seen...