Super Natural Mumbo Jumbo

[JEAP]

So, what do you think of the "super natural?"

I don't belive in ghosts or any of that nonsense. Most of that can be explained as natural phenomena and the rest as human action. And I'd be willing to say that most of the other stuff is a load of crock.

I'm ambivilant on water witching, though. Since I can actually do it, it is hard to dismiss it as a hoax. But, I would really like a better explantion than "Because I can."

[Destructionator XV]

Supernatual is beyond nature, by definition. Nature is all that exists, by definition. Therefore, the supernatural does not exist, by definition. It is that simple.

There is a logical explaination for everything that is possible. We might not know the explaination, but it exists. Bringing in anything outside existance (that is the supernatural, again by definition) is bringing in a thing which cannot exist, and therefore cannot interact with the world at all, and therefore is an unneeded variable, and is hence sliced off any explaintion by the logical principal of parsimony.

The short answer: it is all bullshit.

[Robert Walper]

My opinion is pretty much parallel with Adam's.

And this particular topic doesn't need to be thrown in testing. It fits the S&L catagory.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Supernatual is beyond nature, by definition. Nature is all that exists, by definition. Therefore, the supernatural does not exist, by definition. It is that simple.

I am going to point out that your argument is circular.

While your argument is valid, you need to prove your premises true for for the argument to be sound.

As for the supernatural, I would not go so far as to say that the supernatural CANNOT exist. The simple matter is, due to the nature of the so-called supernatural, we cannot know whether it exists or not.

I will use the soul as an example. It is something which, by definition, we cannot test for. No material substance etc etc. However, that does not mean that, just because we cannot percieve the they dont exist. It does not mean they do either.

In order to not make leaps of faith, we have to take a position of agnosticism.

I will go down the list here.

Ghosts; No evidence for or against really. Same as the soul, individual ghosts might be able to be tested, depending on the nature of the claim. However Ghosts in general... we cant know.

Any sort of faith healing: it is bullshit. It is testable, and proven to be crap

Water dowsing; I have yet to see any evidence for it. Despite what JEAP might say, there have been enough tests to know it is probably crap. YAY for dealing with something that can be tested.

Gods: Individual gods can be falsified based upon the structure of their faith. The existence of a god in general, no test possible.

[JEAP]

I had a friend help me set up a test with nine empty glasses and one full one; we both had the same luck finding the full glass, something like 20%. So, I'm pretty sure that it is a subconscious action of some sort on my part. Remembering wher the water pipes are, wanting something to happen in a particular spot, etc.

On a sidenote, TAPS, of Ghost Hunters fame, has their video section up.