Martian atmosphere was once thicker

S&L: Discussion of matters pertaining to theoretical and applied sciences, and logical thought.

Moderator: Charon

Post Reply
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
17
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#1 Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by rhoenix »

[youtube][/youtube]

Oh yes, Curiosity's been busy, it seems. This makes me wonder - would all that would be needed to terraform Mars be artificially inducing it to thicken its atmosphere?
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
User avatar
Josh
Resident of the Kingdom of Eternal Cockjobbery
Posts: 8114
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:51 pm
19
Location: Kingdom of Eternal Cockjobbery

#2 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by Josh »

That's been the running theory, but the problem that's been brought up is the lack of a magnetic field from an active core would mean that whatever atmosphere that gets introduced would just get blasted off in time.

Really though we don't need to be bothering with the deep gravity wells. To the asteroids!
When the Frog God smiles, arm yourself.
"'Flammable' and 'inflammable' have the same meaning! This language is insane!"
GIVE ME COFFEE AND I WILL ALLOW YOU TO LIVE!- Frigid
"Ork 'as no automatic code o' survival. 'is partic'lar distinction from all udda livin' gits is tha necessity ta act inna face o' alternatives by means o' dakka."
I created the sound of madness, wrote the book on pain
User avatar
Batman
The Dark Knight
Posts: 4357
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:47 am
18
Location: The Timmverse, the only place where DC Comics still make a modicum of sense
Contact:

#3 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by Batman »

Why would the lack of a magnetic field play into it? I was always under the impression that Mars simply didn't have the gravity to hang on to a breathable atmosphere for keeps.
And I think at least for colonization, a built-in gravity well (even one as shallow as that of Mars) has its advantages, what with the colonists having evolved in one even deeper.
'I wonder how far the barometer sunk.'-'All der way. Trust me on dis.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
User avatar
Cynical Cat
Arch-Magician
Posts: 11930
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
19
Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
Contact:

#4 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by Cynical Cat »

Josh wrote:That's been the running theory, but the problem that's been brought up is the lack of a magnetic field from an active core would mean that whatever atmosphere that gets introduced would just get blasted off in time.
Eventually, yes. That and the gravity, but the timescale involved is immense by human standards. It's not really an issue, because if we can induce a breathable atmosphere dealing with the miniscule rate of loss which won't even be noticeable in less than tens of thousands of years won't be a problem.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
17
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#5 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by rhoenix »

Batman wrote:Why would the lack of a magnetic field play into it? I was always under the impression that Mars simply didn't have the gravity to hang on to a breathable atmosphere for keeps.
From what I understand, a stronger magnetic field allows a planet's atmosphere to be better protected against being blown away by solar wind.
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
Norseman
Disciple
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:50 am
18
Contact:

#6 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by Norseman »

I'm sure that if we can give Mars an atmosphere we can keep replenishing it as needed. In other words this isn't really a problem. Now giving Mars an atmosphere in the first place, that is a problem.
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#7 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by frigidmagi »

Well I'll float the stupid idea so everyone can explain to me why it wouldn't work.

In high school some friends and I had this idea of setting up some of the nastier factories on Mars, the ones that pump out so much CO2? Later I abandoned the idea because of economics and logistics. It just wasn't logistically feasible to put it mildly. The economics also made it a ridiculous idea as I got older (once again maturity gets in the way of a good time).

So would pumping out a bunch of green house gases work?
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
17
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#8 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by rhoenix »

frigidmagi wrote:Well I'll float the stupid idea so everyone can explain to me why it wouldn't work.

In high school some friends and I had this idea of setting up some of the nastier factories on Mars, the ones that pump out so much CO2? Later I abandoned the idea because of economics and logistics. It just wasn't logistically feasible to put it mildly. The economics also made it a ridiculous idea as I got older (once again maturity gets in the way of a good time).

So would pumping out a bunch of green house gases work?
That's basically the plan a few people have proposed - find a way to reduce the greenhouse gases on Venus to make it livable, and add greenhouse gases to Mars' atmosphere to make it livable.

There are mechanical differences of the terraforming of both, of course, but that's pretty much what it boils down to, from what I've read and seen.
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
User avatar
Batman
The Dark Knight
Posts: 4357
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:47 am
18
Location: The Timmverse, the only place where DC Comics still make a modicum of sense
Contact:

#9 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by Batman »

One of those mechanical differences being you'd have to remove Venuses atmosphere alltogether and start from scratch while Mars, not having much of an atmosphere anymore to begin with, is much more malleable.
'I wonder how far the barometer sunk.'-'All der way. Trust me on dis.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
17
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#10 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by rhoenix »

Batman wrote:One of those mechanical differences being you'd have to remove Venuses atmosphere alltogether
No, not really. Venus' main issue is an overabundance of carbon dioxide, and there are ways to reduce the amount of CO2 in its atmosphere to the point where the Sun can shine directly on the surface unimpeded. At that point, Venus will have liquid water on its surface, and its atmosphere will be manageable for human life.
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
User avatar
rhoenix
The Artist formerly known as Rhoenix
Posts: 7998
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:01 pm
17
Location: "Here," for varying values of "here."
Contact:

#11 Re: Martian atmosphere was once thicker

Post by rhoenix »

More data on the subject, regarding Mars' atmospheric loss, and an upcoming mission to study it further:

[youtube][/youtube]
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

- William Gibson


Josh wrote:What? There's nothing weird about having a pet housefly. He smuggles cigarettes for me.
Post Reply