Diablo III: No Mods, Online-Only, Cash Trades

[Soontir948]

Just want to come in and say I am sorry for my outbursts. It was out of character for myself and should not have happened. I do not mean the words I have spoken against all of you.

I am sorry.

[rhoenix]

(post deleted)

[rhoenix]

Very well, Soontir - take care of yourself.

[Hotfoot]

Getting this thread a little bit more back on track...


For the record, I don't see a problem to not getting a game "on principle". You vote with your dollar, and if you don't like something about a product, you don't buy it, simple as that. Don't like the way Wal-Mart does business, don't shop there. Don't like that Nike uses child labor? Don't buy their shoes. Don't like the price of gas? Don't drive so much.

The idea that people should roll over and just accept any DRM, no matter how invasive or troublesome is ridiculous. I refused to buy Ubisoft games when they put on their always-online DRM, and so did many others, and their sales took a massive hit and eventually they relented. That version was so bad, people couldn't play their games even if their connection was good because, well, you need two things to be online for always-on DRM, your computer, and the connection server.

It doesn't really matter if Blizzard solves that problem or not for a lot of people though, because it has other implications. It means that software is a service, not a product, and that will be a pretty big change from the current method of operations. I like having games as property, not as a service under most constructions of that concept. There are exceptions, MMO's as an example, but there you go.

But, hey, if you're willing to put up with the bastard child of Starforce and Ubisoft's DRM, by all means, knock yourself out. Diablo 3 is not even close to being a must-buy for me, as I could barely stand Diablo 2, singleplayer or otherwise. If I want to play something Diablo-esque in the next year, well, Torchlight 2 should cover me.

[rhoenix]

It doesn't really matter if Blizzard solves that problem or not for a lot of people though, because it has other implications. It means that software is a service, not a product, and that will be a pretty big change from the current method of operations. I like having games as property, not as a service under most constructions of that concept.

And that right there is my main problem with the MMO approach for Diablo 3.

[Stofsk]

Torchlight 2 looks quite good and should serve as a worthy substitute/alternative to Diablo 3 if people find they cannot reconcile some of these issues. I will get it because hey, it looks sweet, and it's something different, plus Max Schaefer is the project lead and he was involved with the original diablo games so I trust he knows what he's doing.

It has the whole 'you can play it on your crappy laptop whilst flying in a plane during an alien invasion' thing covered

[Hotfoot]

Heh, yeah. I have to admit, I'm getting to be pretty impressed by some of the stuff happening in the smaller developer groups, both indie and not.

I do sort of hope that Torchlight 2 embraces its art direction a bit more than the first game did. The Diablo 1 style music with the exaggerated art design was a bit jarring. It shouldn't go as far as, say, Magicka (though Magicka was pretty funny in its ridiculousness), but a more "gung ho adventure" theme would fit it more, I think.

[rhoenix]

Torchlight did impress me, and Torchlight 2 should offer basically what I'm looking for.

[B4UTRUST]

[Stofsk]

Permit me to rebut

With Torchlight 2's price at a fucking fantastic $20 (which would be cheaper for me GO THE AUSSIE DOLLAR YOU GOOD THING), and with this new game - which looks like Diablo if it had been made this decade - being free to play, as far as I'm concerned D3 just got punted to the 'i don't give a shit' pile.

[Stofsk]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09 ... ffect-you/

No pause? In a game that you can play single player? Are you fucking JOKING?

Even fucking STARCRAFT had a pause function, ffs. (for that matter, it also had a 'play the solo campaign/ai skirmishes offline' mode)

Also I've seen beta walkthroughs and I have to say nothing about the game stands out as impressive. I'm seriously 180ing my position. I really don't see myself buying D3.

[Hotfoot]

Yeah, I saw that article. No pausing, kicking you from the server if you're idle for too long, no save function outside of the checkpoints, and no hope if you lose connection even for just a short while.

Granted, Beta, but still, that's pretty weak sauce.

[General Havoc]

Yeah... Pass.

[rhoenix]

So. Torchlight's looking better and better now.

Good work, Blizzard.

[Jans]

Well for the low low cost of continuing my wow addiction for another year (T_T) I have also acquired D3 and entrance to the beta. Its... different, while remaining familiar enough that you don't feel like you're not playing Diablo.

The save thing hasn't really been an issue so far, checkpoints happen whenever you enter a new level of the dungeon and when you complete quest objectives. The gameplay's surprisingly fast paced, there isn't really any waiting around or long periods of poking around while everything is dead. Something that helps with this a lot is you actually get rewards for smashing things up (like large numbers of vases or tombstones) in addition to whatever drops, and the more you chain the bigger the reward. Resource management is actually interesting, for the Demon Hunter at least, requiring you to switch between strong attacks and resource generating attacks while keeping half an eye on your special ability gauge that refills naturally. The health globes that drop ensure that you don't have to constantly worry about potion management (which has also been simplified a lot into one big stack that you can hotkey) and gold is picked up just by running over it. Identifying and town portal don't require scrolls, just a quiet moment as you take your breath for a cast timer. Buying, selling, and crafting are ridiculously straight forward and allow you to put some thought into your gear instead of just grinding random drops. Public games are pretty straightforward too, giving you the option to join games based on their active main quest rather than by Act. Queues are clean and fast, though I don't believe pvp is active yet. Its pretty fun so far.

(As a side note, no more fighting over loot, everyone gets a piece. Like it or hate it it will certainly make high level boss runs less stressful)

Sadly, a lot of the things that make it fun are also making me pretty leery about the final product. Health globes make damage almost a non-issue, I've popped less than five potions (out of the fifty or so I've picked up) so far and only in boss fights then. The beta is only the first 13 levels for each character and supposedly all of Act 1... if so, you're going to burn through it in no time at all. We're talking new character to killing the first act boss in less than five hours. And that's with all the screwing around I did. The game isn't hard at all on its current difficulty, and while the replay value of D2 was always in the Nightmare and Hell (there's a 4th tier in the new one as well) difficulties there was always some sticky spots in normal mode that made life interesting as well. Running into the fucking lightning imp at the tristram portal, getting surprised by the big dude and his minions at the tree, the occasional party wiping encounter in one of the cave side areas, various and sundry other examples from later acts. Nothing really like that in the beta so far. Even the boss was a snore, especially when you compare it to Andariel's ability to gank the ever-loving shit out of the unwary or undergeared.

And yes, there are bugs. I haven't seen many at this point (though the one that locks you out of the final boss's room is infuriating) but what Beta doesn't have those?

EDIT: Haven't really noticed the DRM, if its still in there. You log into it like you do WoW. The battletag took about five seconds to set up and so far acts like your profile from WC3.

[Stofsk]

I kinda still want to check it out to be honest. Not sure if I will like it, but still. It's fucking Diablo.

[Jans]

Its pretty fun, but the beta held my interest for about half a day.

[Stofsk]

Well, I caved and preordered Diablo 3. Torchlight 2 hasn't been released yet for some bizarre reason, and Path of Exile has no respec - which is a fucking awful design choice that there's no excuse for. Grim Dawn looks potentially very interesting though, and there's a kickstarter page for it.

I'll give it a chance to wow me. Blizzard can pull off some awesome games. Starcraft 2 was great up until I realised the multi was fundamentally boring that penalises you for playing anything that isn't a standard build. Diablo 3 is more of a single-player and co-op experience in comparison though.

[Hotfoot]

Torchlight 2 said they'd release at least a month after Diablo 3, and have held to that pretty well. I think it may turn out well for them.

[Stofsk]

Torchlight 2 said they'd release at least a month after Diablo 3, and have held to that pretty well. I think it may turn out well for them.

I wish I knew why they took their time. I mean, I remember last year they were coyly hinting at a possible late-2011 release, but obviously they decided to hold off for another half-a-year and

and

Holy shit, it's May. Fucking hell, we're almost at June even. Man this year has gone really quickly.

Anyway. What was I saying? Oh yeah Torchlight 2. Yeah anyway, I wonder why they decided to do the release a month after D3? Because I thought they were a lot closer to release than D3 was, but apparently not.

So how many of you guys have got Diablo 3 by now? My copy has apparently been despatched from the other side of the world and is en route as we speak. This is still cheaper than buying it retail here. (Just not as immediate. Obviously.)

[Hotfoot]

Probably because they wanted to see what the reception to D3 was and not get trampled by it on release? And if people are unhappy with it, they can swing in a month later and go, "Hey guys, remember when Diablo was fun and awesome? Well here it is, and for only $20!" And it gives them extra time to iron out bugs, add new features, so on and so forth.

I mean, the potential reasons are legion, really.

[Stofsk]

So, who else is playing? The game itself is fun, but a lot of the bullshit attached with it sure isn't. Like having your account hacked and losing all your gold and rare items in your stash. Thankfully Blizzard rolled back my account and so no real harm was done. And it did spur me into making a better password. But goddamn is it annoying.

The gameplay is fun. The skill system is simple and elegant. Stats are accrued automatically at level up, which frankly works far better than D2 or other games of this sort where it turns out you put all your stats into vitality when you've hit the bar you need for gear requirements in the other stats. Some skills seem more useful than others, so it's still not perfect. And of course, gear is all-important in this game as it was in every other game too, but it seems harder to get good gear that can get you through a section. I don't mind a challenge though.

So far I've played a wizard, demon hunter, monk and barbarian - the latter two only up to level 10-12, while the demon hunter is now starting act 2 at level 17. Wizard has a lot of good going for it, but I'm having a hard time taking out Diablo on normal - I haven't figured out the best skill selection for that fight. Demon hunter has some really fun abilities, as does the monk and barb - the latter has, I dunno, weight behind his attacks. The animations and so on sell the power behind the swings. Monk is more about fluid combat and fast movement.

The always-online DRM is annoying but it does let you have pretty seamless multiplayer integration. Friends can hop in without any fuss and that alone almost makes up for it. I really wish they'd included an offline soloplay mode, but they haven't and they won't, so no use crying about it.

The story is ok. Nice, by the numbers, obvious twists are obvious. That said, I didn't hate it like a lot of whiners did. I can see areas that needed improvement, but to be fair the story wasn't really the memorable part about Diablo 2 (although I thought the story for Diablo 1 was good, such as it was). Story, lore and conversations are more emphasised this time around as well. This feels more like Diablo 1 than 2, which really dropped the ball in this regard. I found myself feeling attached to some characters, like Leah, who is the closest the game has to a protagonist (if you don't count the player-controlled character). Also Covetous Shen, a Chinese-esque jewel obsessed NPC you pick up who has some hilarious things to say. Cain as well, but I wish they'd got him to say 'Stay Awhile and Listen!' :)

You pick up followers, and I am of two minds about this. In D2 they added hirelings which well, were really good but also I feel may have taken away something Diablo 1 had (the whole motif where you are basically alone in a scary world full of monsters and you had no-one to help you). In D3 the followers come along with you and have things to say at various points. They have their own storyline you can tease out of them throughout the course of the game. One's a templar, a kind of paladin or tank style character who belongs to an order that basically brainwashes sinners. Templars cannot remember their past. VA was a bit naff though to be honest, and I can't even remember the dude's name. After him you meet a scoundrel called Lyndon, who's way more charming and witty and far more interesting a character. In act 2 you meet Eirena who is a female mage who was awakened after sleeping for centuries.

Anyway the novelty of having followers with their own personalities and arc wears off after awhile, which then leads you to look at their utility in combat - and it's not all that special. In D2 who you chose as a follower was an important question your build/class needed to answer. Most got the act 2 merc because he came with certain paladin auras. That said, there were benefits to some of the others as well. The point though is that they added to your play style significantly, and in some cases you kinda needed them to get through the later difficulties (which is ironic because their AI was terrible and they had the survivability of a snowball in hell). So far, I haven't really observed the D3 followers having the same kind of utility. Hell their damage is ridiculously low compared to the kind of damage you can throw around, their gear options are also limited.

Some other things they did right: the art style is awesome. The content is pretty dark, which is great because it adds to the atmosphere. The art style has this 'painted on' look to it that really looks brilliant in my opinion. I was certainly worried the game wouldn't feel like Diablo, but I think that wasn't a genuine concern after playing the game. Can't say the same for the music unfortunately. The music in Diablo 1 and 2 was memorable. Like who can forget the original Tristram music? That's one of the most memorable pieces of music in computer game history. D3 in contrast, well nothing really stands out. The Tristram music has obvious cues and inspiration from the original, but it didn't wow me. They would have been better served putting in the original piece. The rest of the music unfortunately stands out even less. This was a shame, because the production values otherwise is top notch. Like I said the artwork is amazing, the level of effort put in is incredible. The cinematics are fantastic. Some really good movies in there. The sounds are good too, it's just the music that is really lacking.

Anyway I am not sure what else to say. Just thought I'd share my impressions of the game with you all.

[Derek Thunder]

Actually, being a sucker for trends, I ended up buying the game last week as well. Thankfully, I already had the smartphone authenticator app from my WoW days, so no hacking, and I think I agree with you on pretty much every point. The art direction is brilliant, it's much darker and less cartoon-y than WoW but at the same time is extremely stylized and distinct. Spell effect graphics are colorful and look like they pack the appropriate amount of punch. Granted, I wish the character models at the selection screen were higher-res, but I can kind of understand why they'd make that a low priority.

I haven't tried all of the characters yet, I have a Wizard at level 48 but then my only other character is a level 8 barb (Oh, regarding Diablo on act 1, I had trouble with him too, I found the hydra useful in at least doing a little bit of damage while dodging cages). Some of the spells are a lot of fun, I love running into a big group of trash mobs and popping Archon. I've only used the templar as a follower so far - He's useful, but the dialogue is getting pretty old. I wish there were a way to make him stop asking how criminals are treated in my country...

[Stofsk]

One thing I don't like, and more and more it's affecting my enjoyment of the game, is the inclusion of the auction house. It's actually a terrible idea and Blizzard should never have implemented it. Basically the fun part of the game is playing it and seeing something good drop. By something good, I mean something worth keeping or equipping (if not for that character, then for another). Or a unique item where the odds of it dropping are astronomical (something like getting a stone of jordan in D2 would be).

Unfortunately, in order for the auction house to be viable, drop rates need to be low. Because when you have millions of people playing the game, the drop rates for really really good items need to be low because otherwise the auction house will get oversaturated with gear. That, and because if you're playing by yourself or with friends, and the drop rates are high, then you don't even need to go to the auction house to get the best items. Since farming is now more or less nonviable (redoing missions requires sitting through annoying cutscenes to be skipped which oddly enough takes more time than it should even if it's only a few seconds, and you get the best items from champion packs which are randomly placed in a map anyway), bosses don't drop the best loot by design, and the relative ease of grabbing something really good for your character and level off the auction house, playing the game is becoming less fun. IF you choose to use the auction house.

So far it hasn't been a huge problem for me, as I haven't had recourse to use the auction house. But I can see my character hitting a brick wall if nothing good drops after playing for hours, and if i hit up the AH just to grab a better weapon then it will have basically taken away one of the key bits of enjoyment from diablo - finding that special loot you've been working towards getting. It's such a problem that the in-game equivalent of making your own kick-ass item, using the blacksmith companion to make it for you, is both random and more expensive. Who wants to blow money, materials and upgrades to get an item that may have the qualities you need when you can get on the auction house, type in your level and criteria and fish for something that fits what you need?

[Derek Thunder]

Sadly, I chickened out and decided to resort to the auction house after act 3 nightmare mode became too tricky to solo with gear I had obtained from drops and crafting. Grabbing a one-handed weapon from the AH increased my DPS by almost 800, and it wasn't even a top-tier or orange-quality weapon. It does kind of nullify the loot pinata fun of D2.

Also, blacksmithing kind of sucks with the completely RNG nature of loot - I mean, it would be boring to be able to pick out stats beforehand, but it's heartbreaking to waste pages of blacksmithing on underpowered, poorly-itemized gear that's not useful for your class at all. Plus you can get stuff like wizard wands with strength or dexterity...