[Exalted] Lords of the Hundred Kingdoms OOC

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Lys
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#201

Post by Lys »

The Nomad wrote:And such thorough devastation lies above what is expected and reasonable. If you want to put that kind of background into your country's past, expect to meet the consequences - namely, to find the Confederation of Rivers expecting a new Bull of the North on their doorstep, and reacting with extreme prejudice once the great powers have wind of your existence - which shouldn't take long if you take such a public approach with your nature.
Well, I wanted to explain it in character, but basically it was a diplomatic coup on the part of the Nords. They found evidence that the Count of Edgewater was supporting pirates, pirates who happened to have taken a liking to Ellendian trade. So King Alaric's father goes to the Confederation Council. He present the evidence and asks that something be done. Lengthy, lengthy politicking follows. It's the Hundred Kingdoms, everyone has a grudge against everyone else. Accusations fly, tempers flare, everyone suggests that everyone else is in on all manner of plots, counter plots, and counter-counter plots, all of which may or may not be entirely imaginary. You know, just another day of business at the Council, where getting any co-operation is like herding cats.

As always much of the business is behind closed doors: bribery! intrigue! horse trading! In the end the whole brouhaha sort of settles down, and they come to an agreement. The Confederation Council passes a resolution that basically says it would be really nice if somebody did something about those pirates. The Council also sends a strongly worded letter to the Count of Edgewater talking about "dire consequences" if he does not help with stopping the pirates festering on his shores.

Normally the what should have happened next was for the Kingdom of Ellendia to hire some mercenaries, who would burn out the pirate dens, and then everyone would throw up their hands and say "welp, glad that's over". Meanwhile the Count would laugh all the way to the bank.

Instead the longboats showed up one night. By the time they leave there isn't really a County of Edgewater so much as burnt ruins and shocked survivors. Lots of survivors actually, killing people causes blood feuds, burning their things doesn't. However, there is danger of famine because, well, everything caught fire. But good news! Edgewater's friendly neighbour comes in, annexes the place, marches the locals out, marches its own people in, and begins rebuilding the place. Everyone wins! Well except for the Count, he is quite dead.

So the County of Edgewater was successfully annihilated with a remarkably low death toll, mostly amounting to actual pirates and the tiny Edgewater army. This was like decades ago, and the only thing anybody cares about as a result is to be more careful about exact words when dealing with those damn Nords. Oh, and the Guildsmen laughed all the way to the bank.

^-^
Last edited by Lys on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#202

Post by Lys »

The Nomad wrote:There is no mucking around with Virtues. Compassion 3+ characters must make a mental effort in order to finish off an enemy that has wronged them and could kill them in the future (represented by the need to fail a Virtue check, or spend a point of Willpower). It makes no allowance whatsoever for 'cultural bias', and especially so for Solars.
At first I had no idea how to respond to this, because there seemed to be absolutely no common ground at all upon which to have a dialogue, not even a contrast. After thinking about it some, though, I finally found it.

I think what you are saying is that it's like an on-off switch. Virtue 1 or 2 means you can go against it. Virtue 3+ means you must fail a roll or spend willpower to go against it. All Virtue 4 and 5 have to distinguish it from 3 is you roll more dice, and thus have a harder time failing the roll. If I do not misunderstand, then your approach is an inherently mechanistic one. The rules say this, so this is how it is.

I am more narrativist. I think of virtues in a similar manner to abilities and attributes. Basically 1 is below average, 3 is above average, and 5 is best possible. The average schmuck in everything is represented with a 2, whether it be his strength to hold a sword, his skill at swinging it, or his courage to do so in the face of an enemy. The difference with virtues is that they do not go on the super human level like abilities an attributes do. So I have a hard time seeing an above average virtue as one that must be rolled. I also think it reduces the meaning of Virtue ratings 4 and 5 if they only amount to more dice. The way I figure it is that at Virtue 3 you roll for things that are important to your character, at Virtue 4 you roll for things that aren't so important, and only at Virtue 5 do you roll for everything.

It's a little different with Solars because of whose qualities they embody, and because of the nature of the Great Curse, but the above I think gives the gist of how I was imagining of the system and setting. I like the flexibility and dramatic depth allowed by being able to filter virtue rolls through the character's cultural background, personal philosophy, and personality.


This is not to try and convince you to adopt my approach, or to criticise yours. I can appreciate that there advantages and disadvantages to both. I'm just pointing out the difference for reference, and to be sure that we understand each other.
Last edited by Lys on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#203

Post by The Nomad »

It's not really a matter of mechanics. You're mixing the real-world and Creation. The real world has no metaphysical basis for virtues, only acculturation and evolution, so obviously one's real world culture will tint one's appreciation of a given virtue's tenets.

Not so with Creation. It may be awkward, fluff-wise and mechanics-wise, at times, but the four Virtues are metaphysical pillars of Creation. They have absolute, uncontestable reference frames. Only with transhumanistic or traumatic alteration (such as the Epic Zeal of [Virtue] and Cosmic Transcendance of [Virtue] Charms, or the Abyssal Exaltation for example) does one's appreciation of Virtues change.

You are free to go against your virtues as long as you fail the roll or have willpower to spend. The only prerequisite for Exaltation is to have one Virtue at 3+. You can leave the others to 2, and now, it has little mechanical impact (fewer motes, is all, now that starting WP is divorced from Virtues with the errata) and leaves you free to behave mostly as you will.

But there is no question that, if you've got a virtue rated at 3+ and go against it, you will roll it. No exceptions whatsoever; even opposite Virtues at 3+ (Compassion/Conviction, Temperance/Valor) do not cancel each other, ever, and can leave you into a tight spot if you have to follow contradictory impulses to your best. I might forget to track Limit once in a while, but not so with virtues. A Virtue at 5 is more extreme that 3, but 3 already indicates that it is an important tenet of a character's psyche and philosophy. It's both a blessing and a curse: it can help you find hidden reserves of strength, but it is binding.

That being said, if it spoils your fun too much, and if you wish to represent a character's peculiar understanding of a Virtue, we can discuss the Virtue Specialty Merit (IIRC it still requires the virtue to be rated at 3+, but we can make an exception). No munchkining - while a Compassion 2 (My own people +3) specialty is technically possible, it verges on system (and ST goodwill) abuse. Having a special soft spot for orphans, slaves, or disenfranchised people is ok for the sake of character enrichment. Boosting your Virtue dice and MDV for politics and war, isn't.
Last edited by The Nomad on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#204

Post by Lys »

Ah, I see, the difference is a matter of setting perception. In my case the perception is driven by the impulse to calque reality unto everything, and the desire to throw away all the rules for the sake of drama. Whereas you seem more willing to take the setting as is.

Whether high virtues can cancel each other out seems to be a matter of debate, or perhaps rule zero. The obvious rules-wise approach is to roll all virtues that apply and solve them independently. If there are contradictions in the ones that succeed it could be a matter of highest successes wins, the player can choose freely, the character is paralysed by indecision, or any combination. There are, however, a lot of people who just say that higher ratings trump lower ratings where there is conflict, and equal ratings allows for free choosing. And of course the virtue system is on occasion simply ignored or marginalized.

Anyway, I'm not asking for anything except opinions. I just wanted to talk. My character concept is very explicitly a woman who relies on her conviction for everything. Probably to the point that if she really truly stopped believing in herself (not 'merely' limit breaking) she'd be on the fast track to going Abyssal. Her drive to do what must be done is a great strength, but also a grave weakness. This necessarily means below 3 in every virtue save conviction, which has to be 4 or 5. Even by your stricter interpretation of the virtue system she works just fine, and there is not need to give her any virtue specialities. It may be an issue later, after she's experienced some character growth, but I won't know how I want to handle it until I get there.
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#205

Post by The Nomad »

I suppose you can just leave the adjucation to me (what do I know, I'm just the ST :wink: ) and once Hawkwings writes something we can just roll on with the adventure. Just telling. :smile:
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#206

Post by The Nomad »

Well damn, it seemed I had glossed over a line explicitely stating that Familiars cannot die as long as their masters live (p 112). So they're not so fragile and useless after all.

If you still want a familiar for Amoneth, I guess it's less suboptimal that I thought.
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#207

Post by Hawkwings »

Yes, I am still here, don't worry. Just have work and band camp on top plus oh, school starting too. I think I will tell the story of Thalia's cult, discovering the others, and then deciding to go adventuring, in the same style as the other pieces - being told to some cult leader that Thalia is leaving behind to manage things.
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#208

Post by Lys »

I want to apologize for what follows, because I feel like a total jerk asking such a thing. Normally that's a good indicator to just keep quiet, but it's going to bug the hell out of me if I never bring it up. So yeah, sorry, but I have to ask.

Hawkings, can you change your character's name to Thelia or something? Because I noticed that Alia and Thalia are really similar and it, well, feels a little weird.

Just asking, not demanding. >_>
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#209

Post by The Nomad »

Sorry for the recent lack of activity, but my getting back to work is draining my energy real fast.
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#210

Post by frigidmagi »

Considering we're still waiting for Hawkwings, it's no rush man.
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#211

Post by frigidmagi »

Hawk you alive buddy?
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
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#212

Post by Lys »

No, no, it's "Yo buddy, sill alive?"

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#213

Post by frigidmagi »

I'm a Marine, not a bloody pilot. :cool:
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
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#214

Post by Hawkwings »

Alive and frantic. Just finished my first week of classes, ugh. I will write something tonight.
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#215

Post by frigidmagi »

No worries. Just as long as you're still kicking.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
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#216

Post by Lys »

Hey Hawkings, I found this neat picture that me think, "Solar archery!" I don't know if she looks anything at all like how you imagine your character, but in the off chance that she does I found you a character portrait!
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#217

Post by Hawkwings »

Gah, guess I'll be writing it tomorrow. Saving Private Ryan was on TV and well...

That's a pretty dang cool picture, Lys. I pictured brown hair but everything else looks good, I'll take it!
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#218

Post by Lys »

Ne, Hawkings, it's been a week. Are you not playing?
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#219

Post by The Nomad »

Also, new work schedule next week. I don't know how it's going to impact my games, but I'll keep you informed.
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#220

Post by Lys »

If Hawkings isn't playing, we should ask fgalkin whether he's still interested in some Exalted.
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#221

Post by frigidmagi »

Does that mean we gotta do a rewrite?
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#222

Post by Hawkwings »

Gah, something up this weekend, I swear! Go ahead and start up the background and whatnot to the campaign, my story should slot in without any difficulties since it's pretty much self-contained.
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#223

Post by Hawkwings »

Here's one bit. It's Thalia's harried, hurried goodbye speech to the cult leader she's leaving behind. More story bits to come.

-----

Listen well, I need to tell you what happened, and why I’m leaving. No, don’t try to argue with me, I need to go. But I need you to understand why.

This whole mess started when, you know, that day the men came and killed everyone. I’ll admit it, it was my fault. I got too greedy, I tried to reach too far, too fast. I was more interested in gaining knowledge and power for myself than taking care of you, my people. I was stupid, of course someone would notice, someone with power and the resources to hurt me… hurt us, I mean. That’s something I’ve learned, it’s not just about me, it’s never just about individuals. Groups, that’s where real power, strength, and knowledge comes from. Which is why I’m leaving. These other so-called “anathemaâ€
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#224

Post by The Nomad »

Ugh, new schedule. Short story: fun (for now) but tiring (it's going to stay that way I feel). I feel the update schedule is going to change to "whenever I have a speck of energy".
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#225

Post by Cavalier »

Mmm. Is there any prospect of this starting soon, or is it dead on arrival?
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