[Exalted] Lords of the Hundred Kingdoms OOC

[The Nomad]

Mmmh. BTW have you decided who you should be bonded to? If you want it?

[Cavalier]

The thought has come up. I'm not sure at the moment. He would probably be suppressing any feeling of the bond right now. I'm open to having that develop as a plot point, depending on the exact idea and such.

[frigidmagi]

Hawkwings, I'm supposing my bit should be about you and me since that hasn't been covered yet. If you got any thoughts please PM me.

[Lys]

Just to throw an idea out there, it occurred to me that maybe we helped Thalia with some Dee-Bee trouble. Basically the two natural targets in the group and myself and her. I am the bigger one for obvious reasons, but after what happened to the Tepet Legions I don't think the Wyld Hunt particularly relishes the thought of going after any Anathema backed up by armies. So Thalia is the easier target, and the thought of an Anathema being worshipped as a God really makes the Immaculates' blood boil.

[The Nomad]

The thought has come up. I'm not sure at the moment. He would probably be suppressing any feeling of the bond right now. I'm open to having that develop as a plot point, depending on the exact idea and such.

Technically, on the Lunar's part, the Bond implies instant recognition and Intimacy - it can't just crop up depending on plot. Or perhaps you meant that Yue keeps this information to himself until Plot Happens?

[frigidmagi]

some Dee-Bee trouble

Dee-Bee = Dragon Blood?

[The Nomad]

Yep.

It seems a reasonable suggestion that the appearance of three additional Anathema would cause even a Wyld Hunt to a strategic retreat. Until they can muster additional troops and Dragon-Blood (not easy in the Scavenger lands, with all the trouble brewing on the Isle...)

[Cavalier]

Technically, on the Lunar's part, the Bond implies instant recognition and Intimacy - it can't just crop up depending on plot. Or perhaps you meant that Yue keeps this information to himself until Plot Happens?

Either one of the Solars in the group is his Bond-mate, in which case he is trying very very hard to suppress without dwelling on it and is certainly playing it close to the vest... or he hasn't met his Bond-mate yet. Revelation of either case would certainly be an issue of the plot, I should say.

[The Nomad]

Well, I'm iffy about this grey area... Maybe this is just me being grumpy, we'll see after I get a good night's sleep.

BTW frigid: there's no 3 dots talisman. 1 dot of Artifact equates 3 points of talisman.

I suspect you'll want to go with a 3 points botch-cancelling, 3 points wound-cancelling, and two 3 points warding charms (say, against ghosts and Fair Folk?). That's 4 points in Artifact. I must warn you, however, that those aren't indestructibe by any stretch of imagination. In fact, they'll be automatically destroyed if too close to a Countermagic spell. (Well, you'd be refunded 12 XP in such a case).
A 3 dots small familiar, such as a mospid or hawk, can provide scouting abilities with its sense-sharing and can act as a very smart messenger, if you still want one.

[Lys]

So I finished watching Fate Stay/Night. "S'up bitches?" is now Gilgamesh's unnoficial catchphrase, because every time he gate crashes his way into the scene, derailing everything, I can't help but imagine him saying it. He's just that kind of jerk. I also have to grudgingly respect him though, he really does deserve the title of King of Heroes, as he very much is and acts the prototypical hero. Gilgamesh is possessed of with boundless arrogance matched only by his power, and has the inherent ability to conquer all before him. In the end he is brought low by his hubris rather than by his opponents actually being able to surpass him. Then, when it's over, he concedes with grace and style.

[Cavalier]

Well, I'm iffy about this grey area... Maybe this is just me being grumpy, we'll see after I get a good night's sleep.

Well, I see three options. Number one is to just ignore the Lunar Bond. It's a big part of the fluff... but the fluff for Lunars is questionable at best. Mechanically it isn't very helpful either. On the other hand the connection to a particular individual Solar is still an important part of being a Lunar and even the (eventually) revised Lunars will still have that. It's also an invitation to drama and character development so I will probably rule that out.

Another option is that Yue hasn't met his bond-mate yet. He may or may not do so. Whether or not she shows up is certainly an issue of plot development. Would probably want to consult closely before pulling the trigger there. In any case it would mean fleshing out a major NPC who could probably be expected to interact with the group quite extensively.

The third option is one of the Solars in the nascent circle is his bond-mate. Requires coordinating some detail and cooperating with another player. As far as it goes I'm not unwilling but I don't know if there is any level of interest. And anyway with Amoneth it may wind up awkward, even if there are same-sex "bondmates" that had no romantic overtones. Thalia just seems a little too similar to Yue and to be honest I haven't interacted much with Hawkwings before. Alia has a different enough focus that a bond would be good for drama, but I would want to leave that up to Lys.

So yeah. At this point I suppose the first choice is if someone in the circle really wants Yue as their Lunar and seeing it we can work together. If not, then I suppose you and I should work out an NPC mate, but there's no need to introduce them until later.

[Lys]

I think it's best to leave it for later precisely because having Yue be the Lunar mate of any of the party members requires a special kind of co-operation between the players. It would be a lot easier on everyone if we get the game going and find out what the character and player chemistry is like, and then decide if anybody had a transcendental bond to anybody else.

It's not like it hasn't been done successfully before. Look at Keychain of Creation, quite a ways into the story and we still don't know who is Marena's mate is. Fan theory is that it's Secret, and it probably is since Marena isn't telling anyone. Or maybe Marena just doesn't know. I don't see why a similar thing could not be the case for Yue.

[frigidmagi]

Wouldn't she be bonded to Misho, they were bonded in the 1st age I thought.

Also sorry to keep people waiting but I must request patience on my writing, I'm switching jobs and they have me running about alot. Apologies.

[Lys]

Misho was married to one of Marena's predecessors. His mate is a guy named Proudest Claw, and presumably they were best buds. The Bond can manifest its way in many ways. Romantic attraction is one of them, but they can also be close friends, or even friendly rivals. An example from canon is Admiral Arkadi, who was married to another Solar and very tight with his mate Leviathan. Though things got complicated after Arkadi's wife and Leviathan started lusting after each other, but the issue never came to ahead due to the Usurpation. Leviathan is still sore over the fact that he could save neither his friend nor his lover. If the Silver Prince is Arkadi (instead of Desus) things could get real fun out West.

By the way, frigidmagi, I had an idea for your lance's special powers. For starters Amoneth's lance could be both a thrown and melee weapon. You'd have to switch over the points you put in archery to thrown, but it doesn't look like you're too invested in the guy being an archer. Then to round out the artefact you give a special ability. Maybe for a mote cost the lance will not miss any target it is cast or thrust at, or perhaps the thrown attack can strike multiple opponents.

[The Nomad]

I'm giving a friendly warning here, but you do realize that leaving me to make you an NPC mate is like, much too tempting for my inner troll . Especially since the Circle is out for a Solardick's blood ...

Just kidding

For Amoneth's lance, well, I suppose you could make the thrown attack undodgeable for a mote cost; it would make it a very good 3 dots artifact. The bow which can fire a true perfect attack is like 4 dots IIRC. I'm not sure if we add a returning power. After all, Call the Blade is a vital Charm for a meleeist.

[Hawkwings]

Frigid: I'll just make my thoughts open for public perusal. Not like we're keeping secrets from each other, OOC at least.

Thalia's kind of a sheltered academic type. She has never really traveled, she knows much about history but little about modern times, she is smart but ignorant of the way many things work in real life. Inexperienced might be a good word. Trouble with the dragon-blooded sounds good, and would fit nicely with the cult as well. Say, perhaps, that Thalia was not as careful as she should have been, and word got out that villagers and commoners around the area were worshiping some new god that granted healing miracles. Obviously not something the DB like, so they investigate, and discover that it's not some new god moving into the area, but Anathema! Which is where you (and the other party members?) can come and bail me out. After that Thalia would probably need some time to fix things with the cult, but she will realize that she needs help, and decides to go off adventuring with these other Anathema so that she can learn more about what she has become, and what her destiny is.

[Lys]

In all probability the group that ran into Thalia and then the rest of the party would have run off after a short skirmish. They did, after all, went in expecting to smack around a god that went out of line. Suddenly facing four Anathema would have been beyond the mission scope. So they retreat to get reinforcements. It would probably take them a while to form a proper Wyld Hunt, because of the tense situation in the Realm and tributaries, but when they do we've got ourselves some antagonists! The kind of antagonists that Alia would not want to deal with by simply going home and sicking an army on them.

[LadyTevar]

Just my two-bits on Lunar Bonds:

Nit and I can manage Solar Bond with a Lunar because we are married and able to say "Honey, what do you think about this?" when we're typing up our posts. Hope to hell you never meet Volemack, the FullMoon Badger. I dont' try to play males that often, but he was a LOT of fun. Especially since that version of Ordiun was a tiny little scholar Twilight that Volemack could (and did) pick up with one hand.
Solar Bond 1: I got away with shit as long as I didn't -hurt- him

[frigidmagi]

Alia has taught me a lot about civilization since I walked into this region. I've learned a bit about it on my own though as well. One of the big things I learned? Your cities aren't so different from the forests of my old home. There are safe places and dangerous ones, there are predators and prey, packs and herds. The most useful lessons? I can climb the buildings and run the roofs as easily as I could the trees of home. Also? No one looks up here. I will illustrate with a small tale if you permit.

Alie and I had met the Lunar Yue. Lunar's I had heard of before, they are not... completely uncommon in my old home. I knew they were powerful, capable of changing shape and for the most part enamored with beastmen. Yue was however the first one I had actually seen. I find myself fascinated by his ability to change shape. I am also somewhat irrated that he was able to observe us without my noticing, some mighty hunter I turned out to be. But no matter, we were settling into our bonds and looking for word of the Blond, Blue Eyed Solar when word reached us of a Hunt.

I am still shakey on the details but from Alia has explained, we the chosen of the Sun and Moon are hunted for our gifts by others called Dragon Blood. My own memories from before this life are hazy, to be honest I only truly began to have the smallest part of memory when I met Alia. The History as to why is something I need to learn... Later... When He Is Dead. When He Is Dead.

One would expect 3 chosen of the Gods Above to be the aim of this “Hunt.â€

[The Nomad]

Mmh nice

[Lys]

When I was discussing the above story with frigidmagi, I suggested that it would have been more in character of Alia to just jump the Immaculates, because she knows that they are not exactly reasonable when it comes to Anathema. He countered that with two Compassion 3 characters there would be hesitation to start a fight in a populated area, due to the potential for collateral damage. I figured that made sense and left it at, and in any case Alia trying to talk down the Immaculates was pretty badass.

However, I got to thinking about it later and, I started wondering about the cultural context. We are talking about a distinctly pre-modern society, and those were, by our standards, pretty damn brutal. So it occurred to me that a casual attitude toward death and suffering wouldn't be altogether out of place. The question is whether this would be represented in game by a different virtue spread in different societies, or if it's more a matter of virtues being informed by the their cultural context. I would be inclined to think it's the later. So a people with the same virtue rating but different cultural backgrounds may have dissimilar responses to particular scenarios.

I don't think modern cultural values really apply in creation. Like, the Kingdom of Ellendia usually deals with river pirates by finding their hideout and wiping it off the map. It doesn't matter if it's otherwise a peaceful fishing village or trading town, if the Nords don't think it will bring them trouble (read: war), they'll come in their longboats and burn everything. I don't think it's because of lack of compassion and temperance, or an excess of conviction or valour, but rather because they live in a violent society and violent solutions seem more acceptable in that context.

[frigidmagi]

That doesn't mean that characters, especially characters who are not brought up to have a nobleperson's viewpoint on violence and war would ignore the consequences of demigods fighting a small war in a crowded neighborhood. Compassion means having empathy and regard for those beneath your power level. Compassion has been displayed in ancient myth and legend.

Futhermore judging a game like Exalted using our history seems a bad measuring stick. Exalted is more like the myth and legends told in those times.

I also disagree with your example, the longboats come out because the river pirates are a danger to them. It's not like today where Somali pirates are annoying unless you happen to be raided by them directly. The pirates in this case represent a direct threat to the trade of the kingdom, people could lose their whole businesses, towns could go hungry. While the kingdom would survive it would be poorer and would attract more predators increasing the amount of death and hardship. This makes burning them out and firmly dealing with the problem necessary.

Back then people were living alot closer to the razor's edge, when the wrong call means your kids die from cold or hunger, you move faster and hit harder then when otherwise. Projecting a lack of empathy on them is honestly in my view a modern conceit. No offense Lys.

[Cynical Cat]

If it's a pirate base, it isn't a peaceful village.

[Lys]

That doesn't mean that characters, especially characters who are not brought up to have a nobleperson's viewpoint on violence and war would ignore the consequences of demigods fighting a small war in a crowded neighborhood. Compassion means having empathy and regard for those beneath your power level. Compassion has been displayed in ancient myth and legend.

Well I'm not trying to tell you how to play your characters. If you think Compassion 3 is enough for Amoneth to care about collateral damage, then he cares about collateral damage. Same thing for Cavalier and Yue. I just wanted to discuss the cultural context within which those behaviours exist. Are the character's sensibilities unusual for the world, or are they common? How do their views compare to those of the average towns person, or peasant, or soldier, or merchant?

Such things are bound to vary by culture and region. Like the citizens of Great Forks probably think of war as something that happens elsewhere, and might not be very responsive to a call to arms. Meanwhile, the citizens of Eisenburg have had war happen in front of the gates of their city, and so would react with more enthusiasm. Even so, one can usually outline an overall "feel" for the setting, and at least some generalizations as to common attitudes.

Futhermore judging a game like Exalted using our history seems a bad measuring stick. Exalted is more like the myth and legends told in those times.

Perhaps, but the myths and legends were told by real people, and they reflected their views and values. The majority of ancient stories that I am familiar with have values that are distinctly premodern. Compassion exists, yes, but it and the other virtues are shaped by their particular cultural contexts. In general the heroes of legend tend to be more amenable to casual brutality that those of modernity, not necessarily because they were less compassionate, but because their world was more violent.

It's true that Exalted cannot be solely compared to history, but then it cannot also be solely compared to myth and legend. For example, the role of women in both has been largely passive and secondary. However in Creation the capabilities of human females are explicitly not less than those of human males*. Thus female heroes are far more common than they are in the myths and legends of the real world.

*However the problem of the child bearing portion of the population being less expendable persists. A friend of mine solved it by postulating that a ying-yang balanced army is more effective than an unbalanced one. So the a society that lets its women fight would not be at demographic disadvantage against one that doesn't.

Back then people were living alot closer to the razor's edge, when the wrong call means your kids die from cold or hunger, you move faster and hit harder then when otherwise. Projecting a lack of empathy on them is honestly in my view a modern conceit. No offense Lys.

Well, that's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Not that people were any more or less virtuous, but rather that their virtues are shaped by the realities of their world.

If it's a pirate base, it isn't a peaceful village.

Usually not, since most times the villagers are in on it and actively support the pirates. However if pirates want to base themselves somewhere and the villagers happen to not be keen on the idea, there's not much that they can do about it. I meant those cases in my example. The villagers are only guilty by association, but they still get punished. Still, it may have been a bad example.

What I actually meant to reference was an incident I had thought up while outlining the history of Ellendia. Basically the Kingdom annihilated the Free County of Edgewater, because the Count was bankrolling a bunch of river pirates. They could have just marched straight to the Count's palace and deposed him. Well, they did that, but they also destroyed everything else, even the inland villages that had little to do with it. That at least offends my sensibilities.

[The Nomad]

There is no mucking around with Virtues. Compassion 3+ characters must make a mental effort in order to finish off an enemy that has wronged them and could kill them in the future (represented by the need to fail a Virtue check, or spend a point of Willpower). It makes no allowance whatsoever for 'cultural bias', and especially so for Solars.

Heck, for characters with a Red Rage of Compassion Limit Break, it might mean turning on their own allies if they hit Limit 10 at the wrong moment and the allies are involved in collateral suffering. Paradoxically butchering them in the process, true, but hey, Great Curse.

I would strongly advise against doing such things in game, because the Compassionate characters (especially if they have RRC, too tired to check now) will hit Limit 10 sooner than later.

Besides, while Solars might have to make tough choices and sacrifices, it's different from a casual disregard for human life. Heck, even the fucking Deathlords try to put on a good public face.

And such thorough devastation lies above what is expected and reasonable. If you want to put that kind of background into your country's past, expect to meet the consequences - namely, to find the Confederation of Rivers expecting a new Bull of the North on their doorstep, and reacting with extreme prejudice once the great powers have wind of your existence - which shouldn't take long if you take such a public approach with your nature.

Well, I'll try to sleep now. It's my last few days of vacation, so I'll probably procrastinate a bit before the return to dull work... Well, do your homework!