STGOD! OOC Thread.

[General Havoc]

I'm happy to talk this over with Frigid and Cleric, but sadly, I'm not going to be home all day today. I should be back late tonight, or failing that, tomorrow.

[Comrade Tortoise]

CT can't bar the path of the 1st and 2nd armies with alpine troops. They aren't near the Alps, they're in the northern part of the Danube River Valley. 3rd Army is on the south and could potentially be engaged.

His miraculously hyper alert Germans have already been addressed. Some people will manage to scramble and put up a fight by the time I get there (there are alarms and radio) but that still takes time and they won't know things are going wrong until they start going wrong. Some guys should be caught with their pants down (how many exactly is up to frigid).

That is why they packed up in the Austrian alps, to move down to the Danube.

But I will rework the post when I get home tonight, friends birthday and I am heading down to the lab here in a few minutes.

[Hotfoot]

They packed up and redeployed over a considerable distance to immediately respond to a sneak attack?

[Cynical Cat]

They packed up and redeployed over a considerable distance to immediately respond to a sneak attack?

Through mountains with heavy equipment to boot. Because, you know, they were omniscient and can teleport.

[Comrade Tortoise]

No. I never said they engaged. I meant that they deployed to challenge, not that they got there.

[Cynical Cat]

No. I never said they engaged. I meant that they deployed to challenge, not that they got there.

Fair enough.

[frigidmagi]

I'm happy to talk this over with Frigid and Cleric, but sadly, I'm not going to be home all day today. I should be back late tonight, or failing that, tomorrow.

I'm working tomorrow and have classes Monday, so Sunday isn't gonna work at all.

[Steve]

Given the quoted numbers of Mughal carrier aircraft, am I correct in presuming you sent most of your carrier force (hell, most of your fleet)?

[Hadrianvs]

Siege Artillery Range (which is 50 miles or more)

Umm, no. We're all probably fielding 40-45cm railroad guns built in the 1920s. They should have a maximum effective range sightly above 40 Km. In practice they'll often be fired a lot closer in to increase accuracy. The Krupp K5 could shoot out to nearly 60 Km, but that's a bit outside our technical capabilities. The Paris Gun could shoot out to 130+ Km, and is well inside our technical capabilities, but was not an effective weapon of war.

[frigidmagi]

Hadri is quite correct here and we're going with her range.

[frigidmagi]

Nothing personal there AcNut but the last thing a leader of a disunited China would want is a stronger Mughal Empire.

[Academia Nut]

But of course. I would expect little else. Why do you think I mobilized my military? To keep everyone else off of me while I'm off rampaging across the Indian Ocean.

We can mend fences later.

[The Cleric]

I'll be home late on Sunday, I'm off Tuesday/Thursday but on late at night other days of that works.

[Cynical Cat]

I'll be around today and tomorrow.

[frigidmagi]

Then we're not having a chat. I sent a PM to Cleric, when he answers I'll be able to work something out for France.

CT, I posted some questions in this thread. I want answers by tomorrow or I'll do what seems right to me in light of your posts. You won't like that.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Then we're not having a chat. I sent a PM to Cleric, when he answers I'll be able to work something out for France.

CT, I posted some questions in this thread. I want answers by tomorrow or I'll do what seems right to me in light of your posts. You won't like that.

Working on it now.

[Comrade Tortoise]

The Roman Border troops are ordered in your post to take all of their equipment and move to the Northern Slopes of... what exactly? Are these your actual border troops? In which case I'm already in close contact with them and you've already demolished the roads and bridges behind them? Or were you referring to the actual Army of Switzerland? In which case which Northern Slopes are they heading for? The ones facing me? Or are they heading east to meet the Hungarians?

I may have missed something. I was going on your attack plan because reading your prose in order to get at where your military is and what it is doing is painful. I was not under the impression from your attack plan that you were also attacking the austrian alps. If that is the case, no, I wont pack up those troops.

Similarly, I can't figure out what this business is with the border forts and Dresden and the airbases near Leipzig. The Hungarian air attack came at night, and radar does not yet exist, so how exactly was this alarm sounded? Nor have I any idea where you pulled an Army base from rather than the airbase that Hungary's bombers explicitly targeted. Moreover, when flying from Bohemia, one does not fly over Dresden to get to Leipzig or vice versa. I'm not crying foul, I simply don't understand what's going on there.

I do not have an airbase in saxony. He targeted an airbase in saxony. I do have an army base in saxony. My airbase is in Brandenburg. Was also going by his attack plan, which specifies that his planes were flying out of Hungary. I did not know where in hungary, so I took some license and had them fly over a large german city on the way to said army base. I chalked it up to faulty intelligence. Honestly I dont even know why I had them hit that army base. You cant attack what is not there, and attacking into Saxony gets you nothing if you want an airbase.

Secondly, you cannot have AAA guns that are simultaneously outside Siege Artillery Range (which is 50 miles or more) and within visual range of the front. Nor can you have AAA guns that are simultaneously located on the peaks of mountains and camouflaged.

When did I specify peaks? Good firing positions does not necessarily mean peaks. Though I admit to having been tired when I wrote that and my fingers tend to slip in ways I dont anticipate. Sort of a mind-finger disconnect.

But mostly I'm wondering about the timing of all this. Despite surprise, and the fact that you had, by your own admission, "put our military on stand down pending the success or failure of these negotiations," you now indicate that all of your planes are in the air when the attack comes, and your troops "somewhat" surprised, even though the first indication I gave of the attack was an artillery barrage, not an infantry strike.

Stand down does not mean "sit around with your thumb up your ass" especially when there is a massive army on your border. It means "go back to your regular bases, and dont mass on the border in preparation to take the initiative".

They have rotating watch shifts, their weapons are present. They were not anticipating an attack, but they would be more ready for one than Pearl Harbor was, though significantly less ready than the beaches of Normandy.

Railways I'll grant you, those are easy to fuck up. Small children with proper guidance can manage it. Bridges harder and time comsuming and NO you do not have every bridge in Switzerland pre-rigged, that's bloody insane. Tunnel is a bit harder if you want to do it right but you can simply blow one end shut and call it cheese dicked.

Alright. Would I be able to get a decent chunk of strategically important ones? Smaller paths would remain, allowing my retreating soldiers from the front line proper a way to make it back, and the more.... windy paths would be less touched. The goal is to slow down the romans and make them stretch their supply lines so I can use terrain to best effect, not stop them entirely.

Your gureilla warriors bit? I don't see any indication that they're trained to think on that level. Honestly most troops, normal ones who aren't marine level crazy, surrender first. Even Marines would surrender before choosing certain death. You can always die later, undying is hard, as Jesus didn't share the cheat codes before he left.

Well these are the elite troops. I will probably go for Fighting Retreat then. Though I cant imagine they would not be trained to best use terrain to attack asymmetrically.

Are you ceding the Austrian border battle? If so I'll draw up the causalities. Yes both sides are taking some. No you don't get to pick yours.

No, there is just a shit ton I had to cover, I think I missed it.

Hope to have the post revised tonight. Meant to have it this yesterday or this morning, but it is the second week of the semester and you know how that goes.

[Cynical Cat]

[


I do not have an airbase in saxony. He targeted an airbase in saxony. I do have an army base in saxony. My airbase is in Brandenburg. Was also going by his attack plan, which specifies that his planes were flying out of Hungary. I did not know where in hungary, so I took some license and had them fly over a large german city on the way to said army base. I chalked it up to faulty intelligence. Honestly I dont even know why I had them hit that army base. You cant attack what is not there, and attacking into Saxony gets you nothing if you want an airbase.

The Saxony Brandenburng mix up is mine and I'll take the consequence for that error. But:

1) The planes are clearly coming from Czechoslovakia in my attack plan. If I have to eat my Saxony error, you're going to have to eat the "flying over a city I don't actually fly over" and that's without the hyper alert paranoid German issue.

2) They are still going to attack your military forces they find there and saying that they won't is ludicrous.

3) Your guard was down and your own airforce is shuffling around. Your guys aren't omniscient and they're not on what they believe to be an enemy front. It's also early morning/pre dawn (frigid will call timing issues) and correct identification won't be easy.

Stand down does not mean "sit around with your thumb up your ass" especially when there is a massive army on your border. It means "go back to your regular bases, and dont mass on the border in preparation to take the initiative".

They have rotating watch shifts, their weapons are present. They were not anticipating an attack, but they would be more ready for one than Pearl Harbor was, though significantly less ready than the beaches of Normandy.

And they aren't likely to attack planes from Hungary until they know shit has gone down, which will be quickly but not instantly and there's also the possibility for errors and confusion. I'm not saying its necessarily Pearl Harbor mark II (although it might be) but the Philippines had considerably more warning (after Pearl Harbor and the place the US thought the Japanese would attack first) than you did and they were caught buck naked. Scrambling a large number of planes takes time, especially with attackers already on their way.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Of course of course. I will look over your flight plan better and see what other cities may be in that path.

On the other hand, your nighttime bombing runs wont be anything even remotely resembling accurate.

[Cynical Cat]

Of course of course. I will look over your flight plan better and see what other cities may be in that path.

On the other hand, your nighttime bombing runs wont be anything even remotely resembling accurate.

That would be true if that was what I was doing. I'm flying into Germany at night and attacking in the morning.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Ah I see. Honestly man, if you are flying out of Czechoslovakia, you will fly over Dresden, Chemnitz, Zwickau... depending on your exact flight plan. Unless you are going around all of those. And getting to anti-aircraft guns is faster than scrambling planes. I will have what? An hour? provided my austrian military cables in a warning soon after your planes cross the border?

It may be at night, but provided it is clear bombers at least should be visible (Magi you have more experience with that than me... my vision is shit on a good day and have not had experience with military aircraft and how to spot them, you would know maybe?)

[Cynical Cat]

Ah I see. Honestly man, if you are flying out of Czechoslovakia, you will fly over Dresden, Chemnitz, Zwickau... depending on your exact flight plan. Unless you are going around all of those.

And they can magically spot and correctly identify high flying aircraft in the dark when most of the city is sleeping? Your ability to reach is amazing. It's also not endearing.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Ah I see. Honestly man, if you are flying out of Czechoslovakia, you will fly over Dresden, Chemnitz, Zwickau... depending on your exact flight plan. Unless you are going around all of those.

And they can magically spot and correctly identify high flying aircraft in the dark when most of the city is sleeping? Your ability to reach is amazing. It's also not endearing.

Edited above post to ask the relevant question of Magi.

If they spot the planes, those troops would have been informed of any large movements of allied aircraft precisely to avoid that confusion.

[Cynical Cat]

[

If they spot the planes, those troops would have been informed of any large movements of allied aircraft precisely to avoid that confusion.

What troops? Your troops are in Saxony and I have no objection to them recognizing the attack, when it happens to them. Does his mythical trooper in Dresden have 20/20 night vision, insomnia, the capacity to tell the difference between Hungarian and German aircraft at a distance, the ability to be missing from your OOB and still contribute, and knowledge of the movements of another branch of your military?

Your reach way exceeds your grasp.

[Comrade Tortoise]

[

If they spot the planes, those troops would have been informed of any large movements of allied aircraft precisely to avoid that confusion.

What troops? Your troops are in Saxony and I have no objection to them recognizing the attack, when it happens to them. Does his mythical trooper in Dresden have 20/20 night vision, insomnia, the capacity to tell the difference between Hungarian and German aircraft at a distance, the ability to be missing from your OOB and still contribute, and knowledge of the movements of another branch of your military?

Your reach way exceeds your grasp.

OH! Duh, I am an idiot.

I know where some of this confusion is coming from.

Alright, i am assuming that you meant for your attacks on my various bases to come at the same time. IE to arrive at their destinations simultaneously.

In order for that to happen (and assuming a direct flight path), that means that you have to fly across austria, and those planes have to leave first and they have to traverse a longer distance.

That means that it would be my troops in austria that spot your planes and send up the alarm. When I am referring to soldiers seeing your planes, I am referring to them. Provided they see them immediately (if you cross the border near Vienna anyway), they will be able to give my swiss airbase just over an hour warning at the speed of your fastest aircraft. They would also be able to warn the other bases strictly speaking.

Assuming that does not happen at all (everyone is asleep, no one is searching the sky etc), you would still need to fly over a german city at night with your other attack group, where someone may or may not see you (not everyone is asleep... bound to be the odd stargazer or something). If they do they would be able to give 15-20 minutes warning to Leipzig, and Switzerland.

Now, if the launches were simultaneous, leipzig will get hit well before the swiss airbase does, and you can be damn sure they will warn everyone.

Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking about two things at once and did not tell myself that I was switching gears.