Ok, so babylon 5 is awesome

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:16 pm

Stofsk wrote:CT, are you saying you liked Byron?

No. He annoyed the shit out of me. Too self righteous and his persecution complex is too big. Makes sense given that until just before he left the corps, the director of the Corps was a mundane who hated telepaths (Kevin Vacit, the old and original director was probably a P13) who's directives raised the teep kids differently than they were under Bester. Made them pawns of Mundanes through training. Bester was trained differently, and when he assassinated Johnson IIRC) he put someone... better in his place. That happened right before Byron left

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:31 am

I actually LIKED the telepath arc. Bester, Talia (Poor Talia), and to a lesser extent Lyta were some of my favorite characters in the series. To see them really developed and to see the prelude to the Telepath War was really cool.

Talia and Lyta I'm cool with. Bester was an awesome badguy form his 1st appearance to the bitter end (seriously, I kept swinging from rooting for him to being willing to toss him out of an airlock my own damn self, Walter did a bang up job of acting).

Byron just annoyed the ever loving shit out of me. As far has I was concerned he was a fucking holier then thou hippie. Whatever the fuck Lyta saw in him, I sure as hell didn't get. But whatever. He wanted a telepath homeworld? That's cool, frigid digs. You're in a fucking galaxy nutbar, go out and find one.

Yeah, that's expensive and has alot of problems, but it's actually doable. Expecting the others to do it for him or actually cede a world? Isn't gonna happen. EarthGov would rather en masse swallow poison and die and none of the other races give enough of a shit to do what he wanted. The Narn might have of been interested, but he wouldn't have taken that deal.

His best shot is to try and get enough cash together for a ship (which frankly would have been tough and hard to do) take his boys and girls and go looking.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:54 am

To be fair, he wanted a place where not only could telepaths go, but they wouldn't have to worry about EarthGov breathing down their necks. Even if they flew out as far as they could to find a planet to live on, EarthGov could follow and invade. Asking for a world from another nation then is smart, since EarthGov would be less likely to fly over and flex their military muscle against someone they knew could fight back.

Of course, if Sheridan had a fucking spine, he could have said, "Oh, yeah, sure, just find some uninhabited place and we'll make you part of the ISA and keep some whitestars nearby, it'll be cool.

But no.

Ugh.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:26 pm

Bester was an awesome badguy form his 1st appearance to the bitter end (seriously, I kept swinging from rooting for him to being willing to toss him out of an airlock my own damn self, Walter did a bang up job of acting).

Bester was... He was probably the most human villain I have ever seen. During the first few seasons he just seems like a moustache twirling villain, but that is because you only see him around Mundanes. That sounds terrible, but he was never a Mundane. He was raised in the corps from birth, it is literally mother and father to him. His first experience with a mundane was when he was 6, he met the future director of the Corps (Johnson) and didnt need to scan him to feel the fucking hatred...His next one was on a hike in his early teens and he was attacked without provocation by normals. His hatred of mundanes really is pretty well justified all things considered. They hate him, subvert the only family he has ever known to suit their own ends (Johnson really fucked up the corps. The horrific experiments and forced breeding done by the corps was done under Johnson, not Vacit.) etc. Everything he does he does for the security of the corps, for the protection of his people who really are different and pretty horrifically persecuted.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:40 pm

Babylon 5 remains my favorite science fiction show, but I admit, I fast-forward through every part of Season 5 which involves the telepaths. Byron is as grating as a sandpaper turd, but frankly, I don't see Lyta as a much better character, partially because her actress was always much worse than Talia's, which just made me keep missing her instead. When Lyta acts angry, it just seems so damn feigned in comparison.

But the later episodes of season 5 are incredible, and the final-final episode is absolutely mind-blowingly great.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:44 pm

Yes, the final episode for Season 5 was just awe-inspiring, but I didn't watch more than an episode or two of the actual season. I still have them, so I might give them another try at some point.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:23 pm

I think the ones that focus on Londo near the end (Movements of Fire and Shadow, etc. ) are still worth watching, but then again, Londo is just about the coolest thing ever.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:41 pm

Frankly I think EVERYBODY skips the Telepath arc episodes on rewatching Babylon 5. Not only didn't they add beans to the story thanks to the bloody thing never being RESOLVED inside the actual series but Telepath arc episodes mean Byron, and EVERYBODY hates Byron. I don't have it in me to kill the freaking Joker and 'I' wanted to kill Byron. The man was THAT annoying.

Personally I liked Lyta better than Talia (and not just because I have a thing for redheads) but to each their own.
I have to say this much, while I liked Lyta from the word Go B5 had to work at making me like Talia Winters, and they SUCCEEDED. Which made her turning out to be a sleeper agent (however involuntarily) all the more shocking.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:04 pm

Frankly, I wish instead of the telepath episodes, they'd hit it a bit more season-1 style and did more slice-of-life ones like View from the Gallery (which is an episode some people hate, but I enjoyed a lot). There were still plenty of things to be explored that didn't require half a season. You know, living on a space station is cool. That coolness deserves notice. They did do a lot of standalones, but I guess... I guess I just hate the telepath bits enough that any other type of episode sounds good.

Although I will skim episodes I dislike for the occasional bits with Vir, because Vir is adorable.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:14 pm

Batman wrote:Personally I liked Lyta better than Talia (and not just because I have a thing for redheads) but to each their own.
I have to say this much, while I liked Lyta from the word Go B5 had to work at making me like Talia Winters, and they SUCCEEDED. Which made her turning out to be a sleeper agent (however involuntarily) all the more shocking.

Agreed, completely. Lyta's journey at first appeared to be yin to Talia Winters' yang - having Talia get the gift from Jason Ironheart only seemed to level the playing field a bit, as Lyta was obviously gifted from the Vorlons.

This made her being a sleeper agent all the more jarring, I agree.

Pick wrote:Frankly, I wish instead of the telepath episodes, they'd hit it a bit more season-1 style and did more slice-of-life ones like View from the Gallery (which is an episode some people hate, but I enjoyed a lot). There were still plenty of things to be explored that didn't require half a season. You know, living on a space station is cool. That coolness deserves notice. They did do a lot of standalones, but I guess... I guess I just hate the telepath bits enough that any other type of episode sounds good.

Although I will skim episodes I dislike for the occasional bits with Vir, because Vir is adorable.

You know, I agree - it really did seem like the telepath arc was just yanked right out of the writers' colon, instead of carefully pre-planned like the rest was. A "year in the life" thing would have been better.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:09 pm

As you've no doubt been told a million times before, season 5 was the mess it was because way back when JMS was producing B5 he didn't expect to HAVE a season 5 and thus crammed all the story stuff he actually PLANNED into season 4 just in case (hence BOTH seasons 4 and 5 having series finales).

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:22 pm

Batman wrote:As you've no doubt been told a million times before, season 5 was the mess it was because way back when JMS was producing B5 he didn't expect to HAVE a season 5 and thus crammed all the story stuff he actually PLANNED into season 4 just in case (hence BOTH seasons 4 and 5 having series finales).

Yeah, it just seems all the more frustratingly jarring with how good seasons 1-4 + s5 finale are.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:40 pm

Well, really I think it's just that transition period which suffered. I cannot stress enough, episodes like "The Fall of Centauri Prime" are excellent and should never be undervalued.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:34 pm

Pick wrote:Well, really I think it's just that transition period which suffered. I cannot stress enough, episodes like "The Fall of Centauri Prime" are excellent and should never be undervalued.

What were the episodes in Season 5 that...well, weren't awful? I can just skip the bad ones without losing much of the overall plot arc of the season, I hope.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:47 pm

The middle-ground is hard to tell, but I'll flat-out say the ones you can skip completely because they suck:

The Paragon of Animals
Learning Curve
Secrets of the Soul
A Tragedy of Telepaths
Phoenix Rising
Day of the Dead
The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father

These ones have bits that are important because they characterize Londo and G'Kar's interactions in later eps and foreshadow things (that is, without them, you'd be all, "wtf is goin' on" later):

No Compromises
Strange Relations
In the Kingdom of the Blind (involves the Regent)
The Ragged Edge
Darkness Ascending

The rest are absolutely necessary. Er, except the "Objects" ones. Not as important.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:07 pm

Excellent, thank you Pick. I'll go give season 5 a cautious new chance, then.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:12 pm

Good luck Sweepy!

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:31 pm

frigidmagi wrote:Good luck Sweepy!

Thank you, Frigie-kins!

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:21 pm

See now you're just lucky I won't abuse the Mod powers.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:28 pm

Like hell you wouldn't. You're just too lazy to bother

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:40 pm

frigidmagi wrote:See now you're just lucky I won't abuse the Mod powers.

I shall count my blessings daily.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:31 am

I hope it helps. As you can imagine, person preferences come into play here, but it should be a good guideline.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:38 am

Pick wrote:I hope it helps. As you can imagine, person preferences come into play here, but it should be a good guideline.

Of course, but from what you've indicated, we both appear to value similar things about B5, so it should be alright.

I'll update as I watch some episodes.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:20 pm

Well, I will confess I place a huge bonus on any episode that has Londo or G'Kar in it. The scene where they're trapped in the elevator and take potshots at one another is my favorite scene in the whole series. Favorite funny one, anyway.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:29 pm

Londo and G'Kar are fantastic, but I always loved the trip to Mars that Marcus and Franklin took.

"Fifty credits you cheap bastard!"

LibriumArcana.Games

Ok, so babylon 5 is awesome

#26

#27

#28

#29

#30

#31

#32

#33

#34

#35

#36

#37

#38

#39

#40

#41

#42

#43

#44

#45

#46

#47

#48

#49

#50