STGOD?

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:53 am

Shouldn't colonial possessions also increase economy as well?

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:00 pm

Comrade Tortoise wrote:Shouldn't colonial possessions also increase economy as well?

They do if you have enough points in them. They also act as determiners for several other stats so you get good value for them.

Slacker · Post by **Slacker** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:56 pm

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQ ... directlink

This is what I'm looking at for the Vasa Commonwealth.

The islands in the Baltic are up for dispute, I'd imagine, as perhaps a few specific parts of the border. I tried to follow the natural course of rivers where possible-a natural frontier from Riga towards Kiev gives me probably a bit more of Belarus than I'd planned, but we can tweak things.

I'm figuring on a smallish colonial empire, based on the old claims Norway had on Iceland. If we don't have a Canada player, I'd like the Maritime provinces as a Swedish colony-we can figure they settled there instead of New Jersey-and probably a chunk of Africa based on the old Polish colony in Gambia.

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:28 pm

General Havoc wrote:... I think you all can guess which Empire I intend to piece together.

*sigh* It's going to be a pain in the ass making this one work with Russia's backstory. Kind of hard to be the Third Rome while the Second Rome is still hanging around.

Nobody ever wants to give the Ottomans some luve.

BTW - I don't understand why colonial possessions are so intrinsically tied to industrial and financial might that they are a requirement for the higher levels. The US's colonial possessions were essentially irrelevant in making it the economic monster it became at the turn of the 20th century.

They had Alaska, Hawaii, the Philippines, and a bunch of worthless pacific islands. Alaska is resource rich, but most of those were unexploitable until the '40s.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:48 pm

Zeke and Steve are gonna have to do their own explaining but here's how I understand it.

Part of it is to reflect that the major powers of the day have a crap load of colonies. The other part of it is to make sure y'all actually take colonies as it seems players will ditch having any colonies if they can get away with it. Which really isn't in the spirit of the Age of Imperialism.

General Havoc · Post by **General Havoc** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:16 pm

All right, it's taken me some time to put the figures and geography together, but I think I have everything that I require.

I'm still writing up the AH and the explanations in-universe for everything. However Hadrianvs, this isn't the second Rome that I'm playing as. It's the first.

Sort of...

Here are my point layouts for Senatus Populesque Romanum et GrÃ¦cum. All of the territorial claims are just requests, and can be altered and paired down if need be. I estimated the territory sizes in question.

Population: 3, plus 1 from colonies = 4 (roughly 100,000,000)

National Territory: 3 (Italy, Greece, Albania, Macedonia, most of Bulgaria, the western two thirds of Turkey, Provence, Catalonia, Eastern Spain, and Northern Tunisia, as well as the various Mediterranean islands, total of about 1.4 million square kilometers of land)

Colonies: 3 (Gibraltar, Syria, Palestine, Lower Egypt, coastal Libya, Algiers, the Azores, the Canary Islands, and Cuba)

Industry: 4 (180 pts/quarter, size limit, 60 kt)

Economy: 4 (100% Deficit in Wartime permitted)

Infrastructure: 5 (Total redeployment in a matter of weeks)

Standing Military Limit: 3 (Standard)

Naval Focus: 1 + 2 from Industry = 3 (0.9 million tonnage total, 0.6 million BB tonnage total)

Army Focus: 4 (Standing army of 800,000 men)

Reserves: 16% of population (roughly 16,000,000 men)

Air Focus: 1 (120 aircraft)

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:07 pm

However Hadrianvs, this isn't the second Rome that I'm playing as. It's the first.

My brain, it boggles!

:Edits: Oh while I'm here!

I am declaring Eastern and Central Europe closed, players with claims already there can negotiate amongst themselves for satisfactory borders but I am not allowing any new nations or players to establish themselves there. For those of you who have already set up in there, nothing changes.

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:08 pm

General Havoc wrote:I'm still writing up the AH and the explanations in-universe for everything. However Hadrianvs, this isn't the second Rome that I'm playing as. It's the first.

And there goes anything even vaguely resembling historical plausibility. In fact, it completely upends the history of Europe massively and irrevocably changing everything that's happened for the last fifteen hundred years.

I think you'd better be a resurgent Roman Empire, rather than the original thing. An idea would be to have the Kingdom of Aragon, the various Italian States, and the Greek Despotates somehow all become united into one polity. There are two ways to make this happen. One is through increased cooperation fighting against the Turks starting in the 16th century and slowly leading up to the alliance solidifying into what becomes the new Roman Empire. The other is having either Aragon or one of the Italian city-states (Venice, maybe?) simply conquering everything and eventually declaring themselves the Roman Empire. It could also be a combination of both.

It's not realistic, but at least it only has us changing things starting from 400 years before our start date, which I think is reasonable, rather than a millenium and a half in the past. Seriously, the implications for all other players of the Roman Empire somehow surviving just gives me a migraine.

General Havoc · Post by **General Havoc** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:14 pm

I will need to work out what my borders are with Germany in the north and with Greater Hungary in the northeast. Specifically I'd like to work out where the borders are within what we now call Austria, Croatia, and Bulgaria (and which I shall, of course, call other things).

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:24 pm

General Havoc wrote:I will need to work out what my borders are with Germany in the north and with Greater Hungary in the northeast. Specifically I'd like to work out where the borders are within what we now call Austria, Croatia, and Bulgaria (and which I shall, of course, call other things).

Also need to work out your borders with me in Anatolia. Though I think they are already worked out, since you want the western two-thirds, and I told Magi I wanted the eastern third. The border would work out a line running approximately down the 37th or 38th longitude, yes?

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:44 pm

I have to agree. The original Rome is completely out of the question without completely destroying any and all suspension of disbelief.

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:50 pm

Steve wrote:I have to agree. The original Rome is completely out of the question without completely destroying any and all suspension of disbelief.

*sigh*

Havoc will undoubtedly elaborate in excellent fashion soon enough, but I would caution you both to wait before jumping the gun. For one thing, Havoc's not playing a direct continuation of the first Roman Empire. However, it will carry on the name and most of the traditions. Read his earlier quote:

General Havoc wrote:I'm still writing up the AH and the explanations in-universe for everything. However Hadrianvs, this isn't the second Rome that I'm playing as. It's the first.

Sort of...

So, wait for him to elaborate before freaking out. He is a history buff, after all.

As for me, whoever's playing Russia I'll need to talk some recent history over with.

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:58 pm

rhoenix wrote:As for me, whoever's playing Russia I'll need to talk some recent history over with.

At your service. In fact, I already made a suggestion about it:

I wrote:I would really, however, prefer if Manchuria belongs to what's left of the Qing. That way we can have a proper fight over it. Our start date is just past the turn of the century; we might as well set the stage for a Russo-Japanese War, no?

Not that there will necessarily be a war, mind. Would be a shame to not give diplomacy a chance, and maybe one or the other of us will be too busy elsewhere to contest Machuria, but I would like to have the arena available in case we do want to play.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:25 pm

This is the minimum size of Klavostan, I might want a couple more islands as colonies.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:30 pm

Right. *trudges off to speak to CT*

Thanks for posting Klavo. I do appreciate it and will get you up on the world map. I'll be sticking that up tomorrowish.

General Havoc · Post by **General Havoc** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:34 pm

Hadrianvs: Roughly the 38th Parallel works for me as an approximate border. As a more specific demarcation line, I'd suggest a line running along Lake Ataturk on the Euphrates River, and north from there to the Black Sea. My one request besides that would be to keep the town of Trabezon as a small enclave along the southern shore of the Black Sea itself. The town was independent for years until the Ottomans finally subdued it, which in my timeline they never got the chance to.

If you prefer to keep Trabezon though, it's a small thing.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:07 pm

Sorry, Hav, if we seemed to be jumping you. I'll just blame stress from SDNW3 and people who can't read maps or who are grabbing for every thin sliver of territory they can get....

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:24 pm

For anyone wanting naval ships and not just ripping off historical ones, may I suggest the SpringSharp program, the 3.0 beta?

Derek Thunder · Post by **Derek Thunder** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:37 pm

I was thinking of joining the game, I'd like to claim Iran and Afghanistan if those regions aren't yet taken.

Consider this post a placeholder until I work out the other stats.

General Havoc · Post by **General Havoc** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:43 pm

I am putting the finishing touches on my proposed Alt-history for SPQR. I should be able to submit it tomorrow for the perusal of the collective. It'll be involved, but I think I've come up with a solution that shouldn't step on anyone else's toes. If it does though, let me know and I'll revise.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:45 pm

I should have an outline of mine up tomorrow as well

rhoenix · Post by **rhoenix** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:50 pm

Mine's taking a while, so mine might not be done tomorrow, as I've some research to do to properly mangle history.

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:55 pm

General Havoc wrote:Hadrianvs: Roughly the 38th Parallel works for me as an approximate border. As a more specific demarcation line, I'd suggest a line running along Lake Ataturk on the Euphrates River, and north from there to the Black Sea. My one request besides that would be to keep the town of Trabezon as a small enclave along the southern shore of the Black Sea itself. The town was independent for years until the Ottomans finally subdued it, which in my timeline they never got the chance to.

If you prefer to keep Trabezon though, it's a small thing.

I was imagining that the Ottomans got crushed and dismembered by the Romans and Hungarians coming from the West and the Russians coming from the East sometime in the 18th century. Also, the way I originally pictured the border was as "West of the line formed by Trebizond, Erserum, and Van". So that town is kind of intergral to my concept of Russian Turkey. Your border along the 38th parallel is otherwise acceptable, though.

Derek Thunder wrote:I was thinking of joining the game, I'd like to claim Iran and Afghanistan if those regions aren't yet taken.

I'll trade you Iraq for Afghanistan.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:18 am

...You knew me stepping into a STGOD ups the Wierdness Factor.

I would like Great Britain and as much equitorial land as possible. Just a long strip along the zero line, without pressing through others borders.

I give you the Empire Of The Skies.

We Have Rocketships.

Not good ones, I mean, this is 1910, but..

Hadrianvs · Post by **Hadrianvs** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:26 am

rhoenix wrote:Mine's taking a while, so mine might not be done tomorrow, as I've some research to do to properly mangle history.

In fairness to rhoenix, it's also my fault, as we have issues relating to Korea and Manchuria to work out and I have yet to wholly outline my position to him.

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