LibriumArcana.Games

As I just finished reading Marvel Civil War...along with most of it's tagalong titles (including frontlines) I felt this needed to be explored in a real world thinking, instead of the diluted fantastic wankings of a hack like Mark Millar.


For the purpose of this excercise, the following will be held true. There are superpowered beings in our World, much like in the Marvel/DC Universes. These beings, as individuals, can be marked as either super villans (those who use their powers to break the law, or for their own gain), Heroes (those who use their powers to protect the innocent, uphold the laws, etc) or neutral, they don't use their powers to either commit crimes, or uphold the laws. They try to live normal lives, as best they can. Prior to this, there is no law stating these Superhero's have to be registered or trained with the Goverment, they are completely independant, and for the most part, the heroes work well with authorities and even assist the local and federal goverment countless times.



Despite the fact that Heroes work for the defense of normal baselines, damage and sometimes deaths do occur, Supervillans have no true care about the welfare of the common baseline, or for how much damage they cause, as long asd their personal goals are met. They are villans afterall.

A congressman or group in Washington D.C. drafts a bill, calling for All Beings who operate in the U.S. with superpowers to register with the goverment, revealing their secret identities. Those who do s are then considered employed by the U.S. Goverment, forming a special Detachement of the F.B.I., making them answerable and under the command of the F.B.I.'s Director. For this, they will obtain all the benefits of Goverment employment , (health insurance, dental, vacation, a paycheck, 401k, the works) as well as Goverment Training in how to use their powers. Those who do not register are considered in violation of the law, are tracked down, and arrested, considered Federal Prisoners, and with no chance of release until they have decided to register.

The law is dubious, it is writen in such a way that if you have Powers, and do not register, you are immediatly a criminal. If you do register, you now work for the U.S. Goverment. There is no middleground, you cannot be a normal citizen with powers, and not expect the serve the Goverment.


The law meet some resistence in the Congress, it is still under intense debate at the legality of what the bill requires, about taking away the Super's rights of choice, especially when the vast majority of Superheroes have be more than willing to work with the goverment, indeed they've saved the U.S. from superpowered attacks no less than 50 times in the past 30 years.

While attempting to take down a group of escaped supervillans hiding out in a small town somewhere in the Midwest, a group of young Superheroes make a miscalculation, and the Supervillans manage to kill 600+ people, including a local elementary school, and destroy a good portion of the town.

Footage recovered from a video camera at the scene shows the Superheroes being somewhat brash in their actions, and several pro-registration politicians and advocates, including survivors of the destroyed town, push for the passing of the registration act, stating that if those "Heroes" had been registered, properly trained, and working for the Goverment, the disaster never would have happened.

Fuel added to the fire pushes the Superhuman Registration Bill through Congress and before the President within a month of the disaster, with no change to the bill's previous wording. Several Heroes come out in favor of registration, but not in the manner of the bill, though they promise to support the law of the land.

The Bill is signed, and becomes Law. Super-powered humans are given a deadline for registration, or face being treated as criminals and hunted down. Several "former" Superheroes publically state they will not register, being unable to trust even the Goverment with their identities, considering recent mistreatment of sensitive Data, specifically citing the loss of a Goverment laptop holding the names and social security numbers of several thousand Veterans.

With the passing of the deadline, those Superheroes and known powered civilians who remain unregistered are taken down by goverment strike teams. These captives are taken to a special holding facility whose location remains a top level goverment secret. Many unregistered Heroes leave the country, moving to Canada, France, England, or even Mexico. Others go underground, taking new secret identies and continuing their work as best they can.


Several registered superhumans who formerly had no secret superhuman identities, and lived normal lives, are told that with registering, they now work for the F.B.I., They are sent to training camps, "taught" to use their powers, and are placed on teams to be utilizied by the Goverment as what is now termed "registered combatants".

Several registered Superheroes take exception to being used in this way, and one well known Superhero decides he will leave the country instead, he won't be used by his goverment to hunt down friends, and prepares to leave. Just as he is entering the Airport, the hero is told all his assets have been frozen, and that after he leaves the country, he will be placed on the 'Federal No Fly' list.

Children are not even safe, if they have powers. Those children who have powers and were registered by their parents are forced to Goverment Schools, where part of the ciriculum is on how to use their powers. After training is complete, they are allowed to return home, with the understanding that they can be called upon to work with a team of Registered Combatants.



Now, with the setting in place, the law described, and what will/has occur(ed), let us discuss this. What effect would this law have on the state of the Goverment and the country. How would this law be viewed by the average citizen, especially when it's discovered even children are being utilized in this manner? What can be done/will be done about this?


Please treat this as a topic of serious discussion, despite the fact it originates from a comic book storyline which was written by a fucking hack.....

Um, I thought we already had such discussion before?

This isn't about the morality of the SHRA, this is about it's political and social ramifications.

I wanted to discus this as a real world topic, not as a topic which occured in a comic book.

Odds are alot of people will roll over and go back to sleep after all to them you're nattering about the rights of walking WMDs. Some of us will howl bloody murder, others will shake our heads and cluck like disapproving hens.
Others will say it's just a draft and we should move on with our lives.

Now, what will you do? Don't bullshit, be honest. Most of you don't have the first clue what you will do.

Dark Silver wrote:I wanted to discus this as a real world topic, not as a topic which occured in a comic book.

Frankly, though, I still can't decide about my stance of such registration act; although superheroes being mandatorily enlisted as "government combatants" is a worrisome fact. But one thing for sure, I'll buy a lot of VHS blanks to record and document the TV news --who knows, I'll get lucky enough to capture the live broadcast of Ironman fighting Captain America!

Well in real life it would be complicated and the their are serious problems with the law, but in the Marvel Universe the US government unleashes gigantic murderous robots on genocidal campaigns against elements of its own populace (yes, I mean the Sentinels) and any sane super being would have serious reservations about signing up.

Which is why I was hoping to remove the setting of the Marvel Universe, and move it to our World, and make it a real law.

The setting is our world, no Sentinals, no Amazos, no Injustice Guild, random Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, no Captain America, no Carnage etc etc.



The law basically drafts super powered individuals into Goverment service, forces them to work for the Goverment, and if they don't, well, to the goulag you go. The only benefits to the law is you get a steady paycheck for the rest of your life, and full benefits. You want to move out the country? Sorry, you can't. You can't quit the job either, your signed up for to work for them. They now basically have control of your life, without the freedom even enjoyed by the Military personel.


It's...unconstitutional, at the very least. The law makes Superhumans servants of the people, removes the ability for them to have normal lives at the very least. It endangers their safety and that of their families at the very worst. We know how easy it is for a normal human to obtain Goverment information (the entire lost laptop with the vetern's social security information on it from a few months back). How can they be trusted to keep the Heroes true identities safe?

The average citizen wouldn't feel the sting, hell, they may even enjoy the fact that the supers are working FOR the Goverment now, so what if they were drafted and most of their basic constitutional rights got removed. At least their getting a paycheck for it.

As for what I could do? Nothing. I could bitch about it, the Law is unfair, etc. But frankly....nothing will work. Short of the Supreme Court ruling it unconstitutional, or a later bill somehow repealing it, we'd have to accept it..and the Goverment would have a army of super-powered agents at their beck and call.

Dark Silver wrote:Which is why I was hoping to remove the setting of the Marvel Universe, and move it to our World, and make it a real law.

The setting is our world, no Sentinals, no Amazos, no Injustice Guild, random Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, no Captain America, no Carnage etc etc.

........................................................................

The average citizen wouldn't feel the sting, hell, they may even enjoy the fact that the supers are working FOR the Goverment now, so what if they were drafted and most of their basic constitutional rights got removed. At least their getting a paycheck for it.

But how powerful these superhumans are? Are they on the level of Magneto and Silver Surfer? If that's the case, then I guess the average citizen would feel the sting. Imagine a battle between superhuman agents and rogue superhumans --while they're all as storng as the Avengers' heavy hitters.

Dependant on the superhuman. Varying degrees of power, from minor almost useless powers (he can glow) to Superman types. The run the gaumet. Again, it doesn't *matter* the heros power level, we're not focusing on the heroes, but the "real world" ramifications of such a law being passed.

Okay let's get down to brass tacks, the following questions must be answered:

Do mutants (X-Men) exist?

How many splashy messy super brawls have been plastered on the news?

How are the heroes at communicating with the public?

How many heroes have gone rouge on us?

How high is the rate of super repeat offenders, I mean in DC and Marvel land it's a 100 fucking percent, is it that way here?

How many villians convert and for how long on average?

Do villians outnumber the heroes and by what ratio?

How many people have died from direct or indirect super action?

Is there organized anti-super hate groups?

How many fucking people have powers percentwise?

Feel free to completely make up the answers DS it's your ball game after all.

frigidmagi wrote:Okay let's get down to brass tacks, the following questions must be answered:

<snippeage>

Also, do the superhumans tend to concentrate on a certain place? In Marvel Universe, most of them live in New York: the Avengers' Mansion, the Fantastic Four's tower, the X-Mansion, Spider-Man, Dr. Octopus, etc, etc. IIRC, Marvel's big showdowns happen in New York as well: Secret Wars II and Onslaught saga, to name a few.

Because, if it happens in the real world and I happen to live on that particular spot, I better watch my ass more carefully or move somewhere else instead of being caught in the middle of superhuman battles!

I do think the whole act as stated screams "Unconstitutional," but depending on the percentage of the population who are super-human, it might be hard to get a lot of backing. Normal humans would be more concerned with what they think is keeping them safe than upholding the Constitution.

About these government training programs: How are they going to be able to train the super humans? There are so many different powers out there, as well as different methods of using and controlling them, I don't think anyone would have the expertise to set up or run any kind of effective program. The initial influx of heroes would probably overwhelm any system they might have, even if we pretend they could actually train them.

I also think more super-human violence and damage would result in the act being passed. Not only is there hero vs villian, now there's also hero vs unregistered hero. Using the Marvel Civil War setting, imagine there's some type of threat to NYC. So unregistered Captain America comes out to put a stop to it. Then registered Iron Man gets called in to stop the Cap. Now, it could have been something as simple as a bank robbery, which could have wrapped up in no time, but now, its an big ruckus between Iron Man and Captain American, doing who knows what kind of property damage.
(I haven't read Civil War, so something like this may have happened there)

Speaking of which, what if you're a Iron Man / Steel type of hero? Technically, no super powers. Do you still have to register?

Honestly, I would scream bloody murder. Letters would be written, I would probably lead a pro-mutant rights activism campaign. I dont care what the results of the bill are, it is flat out wrong to enslave human beings. And that is exactly what this is. Paid slavery.

Speaking of which, what if you're a Iron Man / Steel type of hero? Technically, no super powers. Do you still have to register?

Hey Hedgecore here's a question that will blow some minds.

Why is it okay for Tony Stark and Steel to own a personal WMD and it's not okay for us to own a lousy AK-47?

frigidmagi wrote:Okay let's get down to brass tacks, the following questions must be answered:

Do mutants (X-Men) exist?

Superhuman with powrs who exsist via genetic mutation do exsist. So I suppose you could call them Mutants. They are viewed as suspicious at very best, by the baseline humanity, but they were never asked to Register or anything.

How many splashy messy super brawls have been plastered on the news?

Alot. All of the High Profile heroes seem to have some sort of media retuine which have a almost sixth sense about big fights involving them. And most of those heroes view it as a huge annoyance, which endangers even more civilians.

How are the heroes at communicating with the public?

About the same as in the Marvel Universe, some are adored by the public, they have been known to hold press conferences, be happy to talk to reporters, Mayors and Govenors have ways to communicate with the local important heroes. Several teams are considered some of the best in the U.S.A., if not the planet. It's not uncommon to see Superhuman heroes on shows like Crossfire, or FOX News, or Live with Larry King.

How many heroes have gone rouge on us?

Very few, and if they do, there's almost always extenuating circumstances. But at least one big name Hero or "sidekick"/partner has switched over from good guy, to villan in the past.

How high is the rate of super repeat offenders, I mean in DC and Marvel land it's a 100 fucking percent, is it that way here?

85-90% repeat offender for super villan, the villans are people who almost to a man, beleive Might makes Right, and they have the Might. the 10-15% who are rehabilitiated are usually victims of circumstance, who found themselves in unfortunate situations, and thanks to some of the same heroes who took them down, turned their life around to become neutrals or heroes themselves.

How many villians convert and for how long on average?

Very few convert for any reason, and even then, it's only a temporary thing. Unless restraints have been placed on them, the Villians hardly ever team up or fight for the laws of the land

Do villians outnumber the heroes and by what ratio?

Known Superhuman population is approx 5% of the total Global Population, of that, approx 1% are Heroes, 1.5-2% are Villians, with the rest remaining neutral/civilians. (all figures based on global population, not percentage of the total number of

How many people have died from direct or indirect super action?

Alot less than would have died without super-action. While the Heroes do attempt, for the most part, to make sure no civilians get hurt or killed, the inevitable does occur. Total civilian deathcount over the past 50 years, not counting the incident which lead to the passing of the SHRA <2,000. (This figure doesn't include events which where beyond the Heroes control, or occured prior to their involvement.)

Is there organized anti-super hate groups?

Yes, much like any minority group, Superpowered humans have their own loving Hate groups. There are several active branches of them through the country, and they do have lobbiest in the Federal Goverment. Though these groups don't get to hold much sway, since Superhuman's are responsible for saving ALOT of lives, and on no less than three incidents in the past ten years, the world.

How many fucking people have powers percentwise?

Answered above, the general held estimate is 5% of the current world population have Powers in some way shape or form. This number, in actuality, is closer to 10-12%, just alot manage to stay out of the limelight, since their powers are either completely useless (the aformentioned "I can glow" types) or they've never had reasons to make use of them in public.



To answer Hedgecore's question, Any being who engages in Heroic activity in the U.S.A. would have to register, that means if your Superman, or Batman, or Tony Stark, or Steel, you have to register. It doesn't matter if your powers come from genetic mutation, comics energy, a suit of powerarmor, magic, or your just amazingly well trained. You have to register, or be faced as being a Nonregistered Combatant and marked for arrest.

So with those percentages... they want to enslave a significant percent of the US population

Alot less than would have died without super-action. While the Heroes do attempt, for the most part, to make sure no civilians get hurt or killed, the inevitable does occur. Total civilian deathcount over the past 50 years, not counting the incident which lead to the passing of the SHRA <2,000. (This figure doesn't include events which where beyond the Heroes control, or occured prior to their involvement.)

Every other answer was excaltly what I needed for this and I thank you.

As for this one, I didn't ask about the heroes attempts to keep causalities down for I have doubt they tried their level best. I am asking for the total number of baseline people who have died at the hands of superbeings, directly or indirectly, no matter the circumstances.

in that case, your looking at a total of 300-500,000 dead baselines over the past 50 years, this includes baseline military.

This includes threats to the entire world that superhumans where involved in, one which left no fewer than three US cities and the Supers which tried to defend it, obliterated (as in wiped off the map)

Then I would say that the world-wide death toll does not justify patently violating the rights of 15 million or so people. Smoking deaths were around 500k people in a 4 year time span. So...

This includes threats to the entire world that superhumans where involved in, one which left no fewer than three US cities and the Supers which tried to defend it, obliterated (as in wiped off the map)

I think that would be enough to drive it up higher. Say around 1 million.

Your right, considering what we spoke about in AIM.


Considering the three cities, you can figure 1 million to 1.1 million dead over the last 50 years due to superhuman activities in the U.S.

Okay after a chat in AIM the following U.S cities were wiped out.

Mobile Al- 191, 544

Kansas City Mi- 444,965

Flagstaff Az- 122,000

758,509 not counting any other deaths, in the US alone, CT I respectfully submit the total desturction of 3 cities in the US would cause massive outcry.

Think about what people were screaming on Sep 12, 2001 and jump it up by a million...

I keep saying to look at B5 and the Psi Corps. Pretty much the same question is posed, and the answer was to remand all telepaths over to the care of an organized body, or else accept neutralization of the power.

It's an ugly answer, but it's an exceedingly ugly situation. If the powers breed true, though, eventually the human race will be destroyed.

Petrosjko wrote:I keep saying to look at B5 and the Psi Corps. Pretty much the same question is posed, and the answer was to remand all telepaths over to the care of an organized body, or else accept neutralization of the power.

There was another alternative that B5 didn't look at, and that is the use of psi-jamming technology. If you have these devices sprinkled throughout population centres, the psionicists can't read their minds or use their powers easily. This is like cell-phone blockers in parts of the world where terrorists detonate bombs via cell-phone.

Honestly, I found the whole 'join the corps' or 'become a vegetable' solutions to be unsatisfactory.

Petrosjko wrote:I keep saying to look at B5 and the Psi Corps. Pretty much the same question is posed, and the answer was to remand all telepaths over to the care of an organized body, or else accept neutralization of the power.

It's an ugly answer, but it's an exceedingly ugly situation. If the powers breed true, though, eventually the human race will be destroyed.

Wil it be destroyed... or will it evolve?

Anyway, my take on this situation:

Registration of supers: good idea.

Mandatory government service for supers: bad, baaaad idea.

Criminality of un-registered supers: even worse idea.