LibriumArcana.Games

For ease of debate, let us assume the fantasy nation is using a carbon copy of the current US Constitution circa 2007, January 26th. Let us also assume the fantasy nation in question has the same court system with the same civil rights (makes sense don't it?). I do this because many of us are passingly filimar with the US Constitution due to past debates and the rest of us happen to live in the US.

Now the question I put to you is... Would magical spells or effects that compell truth or detect lies violate your Constitutional rights in a trail or police interrogation? Would scrying the crime be a valid means of investgation of a crime? Does the government have a right to scry a private citizen? Do private citizens have the right to scry other private citizens?

What else could come into play in a criminal event or investagation?

Mind scanning spells would definitely violate the accused's rights against self incrimination as they are currently interpreted. Of course that right wasn't written when there was a magical means of accurately divining the truth or falsehood of testimony or the guilt or innocent of a suspect, so it might get ammended.

It depends on a fine peice of hairsplitting.

If the spell compels the person to tell the truth, it's a violation. If it merely prevents them from lying, it'd be fine. The answer to why is simply: Fifth Amendment. If you simply are unable to lie, you can simply invoke the Fifth Amendment and there you go.

Scrying is, in general, just like existing survellience, and would likely be considered analogous.

Mercedes Lackey's "Heralds of Valdemar" series tackles this situation head-on. The Heralds have two versions of a TruthSpell. The lesser one makes the person's aura visible to everyone present, and when a lie is told the aura shifts to blue. The stronger version compells the accused to state only the truth.

The second version is used rarely, while the first can be cast by any Herald. The fact that all Heralds are god-Chosen as uncorruptable and their training is meant to teach them to be fair and impartial judges makes the Truth Spell work.

Plus, if i recall correctly, as mentioned in her Last Herald-Mage trilogy they also accepted mind reading as a valid form of evidence. The situation was along the lines of a particular individual having knowledge of another individual's plot to hostilely take over his homeland. However, since the familes of the two individuals were at war for years, him saying he had knowledge of such was just circumstantial at best. But they did note that they would accept a mind reading of the knowledge as valid.

It required a submission to the mind reading and wasn't forced or a standard form of interrogation or questioning. So it wasn't a violation of privacy in this case since the person undergoing the mind reading had already given consent to have the information drawn out of their mind.

frigidmagi wrote:For ease of debate, let us assume the fantasy nation is using a carbon copy of the current US Constitution circa 2007, January 26th. Let us also assume the fantasy nation in question has the same court system with the same civil rights (makes sense don't it?). I do this because many of us are passingly filimar with the US Constitution due to past debates and the rest of us happen to live in the US.

Now the question I put to you is... Would magical spells or effects that compell truth or detect lies violate your Constitutional rights in a trail or police interrogation? Would scrying the crime be a valid means of investgation of a crime? Does the government have a right to scry a private citizen? Do private citizens have the right to scry other private citizens?

What else could come into play in a criminal event or investagation?

In answer to the first question. Compelling truth would violate the 5th amendment. One that simply detected lies would be perfectly legal. Provided the spell could be monitored by the defense. An example would be a magically inscribed circle standard in all courts that detected lies by flashing red if a lie was spoken.

Same in an interrogation. Any sort of mind scanning spell would be out of course.

Scrying... If it is a crime scene I would imagine Forensic Diviners would be brought in. What they see probably would not be admissable as there is no way to verify it (hearsay rule, and the possibility of magical tampering) However, it would probably be used to get leads. Find witnesses, determine what the exact events of the crime scene were, identify a POTENTIAL suspect for further investigation, etc.

Scrying on a home would violate constitutional rights, unless there was a warrant, and even then there are countermeasures such as Detect Scrying that would probably be legal as well (window shades against video surveillance as an analogue)

Scrying spells on homes by other citizens would fall under peeping tom legislation in all likelihood, and any information gleaned from it would not be admissible in any court.