LibriumArcana.Games

Now... in the spirit of recent vs debates we're having a small bunch of around here...

One extremely badass and powerful being...

Versus...

Another extremely badass and powerful being...

They are armed with typical weaponry (exception: Elminster's Sword of Thundering, and his eversmoking pipe, can now resist Lightsabres).

The battle takes place in the typical X-Men Danger Room (set to non-holographic and non-training mode) as it's the safest place I can think of at the moment, barring the astral plane.

So, who wins?

Elminster used a silenced, stilled, and quickened Forcecage, ad traps Mace Windu within it.

He then has his way with Mace Windu, hitting him with death spells until he fails to resist them.

Comrade Tortoise wrote:Elminster used a silenced, stilled, and quickened Forcecage, ad traps Mace Windu within it.

He then has his way with Mace Windu, hitting him with death spells until he fails to resist them.

No he doesn't as he lacks both Silent and Still Spell. The quickened is kosher though.

Cynical Cat wrote:

Comrade Tortoise wrote:Elminster used a silenced, stilled, and quickened Forcecage, ad traps Mace Windu within it.

He then has his way with Mace Windu, hitting him with death spells until he fails to resist them.

No he doesn't as he lacks both Silent and Still Spell. The quickened is kosher though.

I stand corrected. Should have looked at his stats first.

Still, I dont think the question is whether he can beat Mace Windu, but rather, how long it takes him to seduce Mace Windu after polymorphing him into a woman.

Still, I dont think the question is whether he can beat Mace Windu, but rather, how long it takes him to seduce Mace Windu after polymorphing him into a woman.

Consider that sigged, Comrade

Well what are Windu's d20 stats? His saves are probably through the roof. BMF and all, you know.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Well what are Windu's d20 stats? His saves are probably through the roof. BMF and all, you know.

They dont matter whem the mage doesnt have to use spells that allow saves..

Sadly, the Old Sage trumps the BMFer. Elminster has canonically survived lava burns and having his entrails pulled out of his body(Elminster in Hell, and of course being trapped on Gehenna during the Avatar Saga). All respect to the insane TK of Windu; but sheer survivability goes to the Chosen.

However, I am given to suspect El would use a spell to give Windu pause, explain they were being fucked with by a divine being, and then that divine being is fucked.

SirNitram wrote:Sadly, the Old Sage trumps the BMFer. Elminster has canonically survived lava burns and having his entrails pulled out of his body(Elminster in Hell, and of course being trapped on Gehenna during the Avatar Saga).

It's been awhile since I read that, but wasn't that because he was being kept alive/non-dead by the plane and/or his captor?

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Sadly, the Old Sage trumps the BMFer. Elminster has canonically survived lava burns and having his entrails pulled out of his body(Elminster in Hell, and of course being trapped on Gehenna during the Avatar Saga).

It's been awhile since I read that, but wasn't that because he was being kept alive/non-dead by the plane and/or his captor?

I admit to not being sure, but I don't remember any such reference.

Well what are Windu's d20 stats? His saves are probably through the roof. BMF and all, you know.

Mace Windu: Male Human Jedi guardian 5/Jedi weapon masterPotJ 7/Jedi Master 7; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Defense 25 (+2 Dex, +13 class), 29 with Knight Defense; Spd 10 m; VP/WP 149/15; Atk +23/+18/+13/+8 melee * (7d8+1/18-20, lightsaber) or +20/+15/+10/+5 melee (2d4+1/19-20, unarmed) or +21/+16/+11/+6 ranged (by weapon); SQ block, deflect (attack -3, defense +3, extend defense and attack), force secret (Battlemind +1, Force Strike +1, Heal Self +1); SV Fort +14, Ref +14, Will +15; SZ M; FP 12; Rep +9; Str 12, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 18.

Equipment: Lightsaber*, Jedi robes.

* Mace Windu has constructed his own lightsaber.

Skills: Bluff +9, Computer Use +5, Craft (lightsaber) +8, Diplomacy +13, Disguise +6, Intimidate +16, Jump +5, Knowledge (Coruscant) +8, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +16, Read/Write Basic, Speak Basic, Speak Huttese, Speak Ryl, Speak Shyriiwook, Tumble +12.

Force Skills: Affect Mind +13, Battlemind +16, Empathy +8, Enhance Ability +12, Enhance Senses +8, Farseeing +8, Force Defense +12, Force Grip +10, Force Stealth +6, Force Strike +15, Heal Self +7, Move Object +15, See Force +11, Telepathy +7.

Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Improved Critical (Lightsaber), Improved Martial Arts, Martial Arts, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Lightsaber), Weapons Group Proficiency (blaster pistols, simple weapons), Whirlwind Attack.

Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Form VII MasteryHG, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Sense.

Level 19...

Kind of trumped by Elminster's level 35

While using game stats is nice, to be honest, D20 rarely provides the best system for accurate comparisons. Even with the level disparity, the D20 SW and D&D settings have different rules. One critical hit with a lightsaber could annihilate Elminster if you use the SW rules, but all that comes down to flaws in the system. The game stats, as always, are little more than an abstraction of the fiction.

I haven't had much exposure to Elminster and his exploits, but obviously the best way to handle this would be to compare the Novelizations of the movies and the various FR novels, rather than the in-game stats.

Well, via errata alone...

Elminster is capable of melting gold with a simple low-level (relatively) spell.

Dakarne wrote:Well, via errata alone...

Elminster is capable of melting gold with a simple low-level (relatively) spell.

Gold is not exactly known for it's phenomenal thermal resistance, pure gold especially.

Hotfoot wrote:

Dakarne wrote:Well, via errata alone...

Elminster is capable of melting gold with a simple low-level (relatively) spell.

Gold is not exactly known for it's phenomenal thermal resistance, pure gold especially.

He can do a hell of a lot more than that though. To put thngs in perspective, he is easilly able to annhihilate a city all by his lonesome.

In the blink of a an eye he can turn Windu's lightsaber into a viper, and then polymorph him into a rat.

Another gesture sends a Snilocks Missile Storm, dozens of magic missiles which cannot be blocked or dodged in mace Windu's gneral direction,and with another word, he becomes completely immune to anything Windu throws at him.

There just isnt a contest.

Gold is not exactly known for it's phenomenal thermal resistance, pure gold especially.

I was talking in the ballpark of 1000 degrees celsius with a low-grade spell.

Lightning Bolt to be precise.

I'm pretty sure Mace cannot survive a Quickened Disintegrate spell.

By the time mace WIndu has his lightsaber out, Elminster will have already put him in the grip of a Hold Person spell/ Then he can take his sweet time with the other spells.

1. Polymorph mace Windu into a woman, and cast permenency so there is no end to the duration
2. Place a Geas/Quest on him which compels him/her on pain of death to "get to know" at least half the young men in the Dalelands, in the carnal sense.
3.Sits back with his eversmoking pipe and chuckle as Macy Windu (as she is now known) sucks his reality bending cock.

Comrade Tortoise wrote:By the time mace WIndu has his lightsaber out, Elminster will have already put him in the grip of a Hold Person spell/ Then he can take his sweet time with the other spells.

1. Polymorph mace Windu into a woman, and cast permenency so there is no end to the duration
2. Place a Geas/Quest on him which compels him/her on pain of death to "get to know" at least half the young men in the Dalelands, in the carnal sense.
3.Sits back with his eversmoking pipe and chuckle as Macy Windu (as she is now known) sucks his reality bending cock.

Bullshit

1) Mind control against a Jedi? Not a good bet.

2 & 3) Essentially rape and totally out of character.

Now a quicked forcecage to confine him is much more likely.

The best combination for beating a Jedi is to put an anti-magic field around him... He becomes naught but a mere mortal then, as his powers of the force count as Psionics and are still affected my antimagic fields.

However, Elminster is still a fucking decent swordsman regardless.

It's called humor, dont worry, I dont actually think he would do that.

I agree, the quckened forcecage is far more likely. As is simply disintegrating him, or pounding him with Snillocs Missile Storm, or scorching ray, finger of death, or quickened delayed blast fireball and Horrid Wilting, or (insert spell here)