A writer by the name of R. Scott Bakker wrote a fantasy trilogy consisting of the novels The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior-Prophet, and The Thousandfold Thought. They are part of a larger world that he is expanding on and they are some of the best epic and sword and sorcery fantasy that have ever been written. Why there so good is what I propose to discuss.
The first is because he isn't writing generic medieval fantasy. The model for the trilogy is the First Crusade, but the various nations and religions are only rough equivalences. The customs and traditions are familiar enough to be readily understood, from the near savages wearing the shrunken head of Sranc (goblin-equivalents) in their hair and braids to the complicated rules of jnan these are not our ersatz customs, but ones we recognize nonethless. Familiar archetypes are both honoured and inverted. The Nonmen are an ancient race far wiser and more powerful than Men at their height, but they were not better than us and are now dwindling and doomed do to their own actions and those of a terrible foe.
There are knights and sorcerers and good princes, but slavery is a universal custom and the lowest castes are at the mercies of their greaters. The setting is a plausible fantasy with the sentimentality sandblasted away. The series is unkind to women because the world would be unkind to women in their position. It can be a rough read. It does not shy away from brutality. It does not shy away from consequences.
Not merely physical ones. A defining piece of the setting is that the afterlife is believed to be real and why would it not be? Sorcerers can touch it and demons and gods (or beings called gods) dwell there. Damnation is real and terrible, not a merely a matter of faith and opinion but an eternal fate that could befall anyone.
This isn't our world, not even for those on this board who are believers. Sorcerers cannot sing blasphemy and smite their foes with blazing suns and drag demons screaming into this world. Reports of miracles are likely the act of charlatans, not holy men. There are no places where the boundary between this world and the Outside wears thin and we can feel Hell.
The writing is skillful, almost poetic, and the characters and their dilemmas are compelling. It does not give us easy answers because even the most intelligent of the viewpoint characters, the monk Kelhus who is the product of two thousand years of selective breeding for intellect and raised in an environment that denied the very existence of the supernatural, does not have all the answers. We learn them as the characters do and so the veil is removed from the secrets to the world.
It's a compelling read on many levels, from intrigue, action-adventure, to metaphysical mystery. On the surface it is just a Holy War called by a powerful and charismatic new Shria of the Thousand Temples who desires to strike against the Fanim heretics but moving beneath the are not merely the intrigues of kings and emperors but an ancient and terrible foe who desires to unleash the Second Apocalypse.
Read it.
The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
Moderator: frigidmagi
- Cynical Cat
- Arch-Magician
- Posts: 11930
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
- 19
- Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
- Contact:
#1 The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
Last edited by Cynical Cat on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
- Stofsk
- Secret Agent Man
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:46 pm
- 19
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
#2 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
Sounds like a grim kick in the teeth.
To be honest, I don't really like this whole 'let's make medieval style fantasy more medieval rather than idealised or romanticised' thing that seems to becoming chic. I figure that unless you're writing a historical novel, you can basically write or create any setting you want. Especially in fantasy.
Having said that, if the writing's good then the writing's good. Jack Vance is a good example of this. A lot of terrible shit goes down in his novels, or is implied to have gone down; some characters can only charitably be called anti-heroes at best, like Cugel. And having a recommendation from everyone's favourite cynical feline board member carries some weight. :)
To be honest, I don't really like this whole 'let's make medieval style fantasy more medieval rather than idealised or romanticised' thing that seems to becoming chic. I figure that unless you're writing a historical novel, you can basically write or create any setting you want. Especially in fantasy.
Having said that, if the writing's good then the writing's good. Jack Vance is a good example of this. A lot of terrible shit goes down in his novels, or is implied to have gone down; some characters can only charitably be called anti-heroes at best, like Cugel. And having a recommendation from everyone's favourite cynical feline board member carries some weight. :)
- Cynical Cat
- Arch-Magician
- Posts: 11930
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
- 19
- Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
- Contact:
#3 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
As you say if the writing's good then the writing is good. Bakker constructs a believable, exotic world that isn't quite standard fantasy. He deliberately examines and plays with a number of fantasy archetypes, inverting some and taking others to their logical conclusions. The world sucks because a world with the traits he created would suck just as like it would suck to be in a city being stormed by an army of crusaders.Stofsk wrote:Sounds like a grim kick in the teeth.
To be honest, I don't really like this whole 'let's make medieval style fantasy more medieval rather than idealised or romanticised' thing that seems to becoming chic. I figure that unless you're writing a historical novel, you can basically write or create any setting you want. Especially in fantasy.
Having said that, if the writing's good then the writing's good.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
- The Cleric
- Thy Kingdom Come...
- Posts: 741
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:34 pm
- 19
- Location: The Right Hand Of GOD
- Contact:
#4 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
Fantastic series. The ending blindsided me entirely. Tense and well written, kept me up for a few nights trying to finish it.
Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
- Cynical Cat
- Arch-Magician
- Posts: 11930
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
- 19
- Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
- Contact:
#5 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
Glad you liked it. The first two books of the Aspect-Emperor, taking place 20 years later, The Judging Eye and The White Luck Warrior, are already out. The Unholy Consult is currently undergoing the editing/rewriting process. There is also a very bad motherfucker in the series who goes by the handle Cleric.The Cleric wrote:Fantastic series. The ending blindsided me entirely. Tense and well written, kept me up for a few nights trying to finish it.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
- The Cleric
- Thy Kingdom Come...
- Posts: 741
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:34 pm
- 19
- Location: The Right Hand Of GOD
- Contact:
#6 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
...
Damn you CC. You've just ruined me for a week, you know that? Ruined.
Damn you CC. You've just ruined me for a week, you know that? Ruined.
Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
- Cynical Cat
- Arch-Magician
- Posts: 11930
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:53 pm
- 19
- Location: Ice Sarcophagus outside a ruined Jedi Temple
- Contact:
#7 Re: The Prince of Nothing and Why You Should Read It
All three books of the Prince of Nothing are now available as audiobooks.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.