LibriumArcana.Games

She hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down. Sure you hate her like hell, but...

...but you can't deny a thing.

Deep down in your heart, you still love her. Chicks flutter around you; nothing compares to her. Deep down inside you're still longing for her, wanting to hold her, caress her hair; sharing the moments again, no matter how long you have been separated. You're still hoping she'll change someday, and you two will be one again; better and stronger than ever.

Is it actually possible? Any of you have ever actually had such experience?

They say you should believe in love, but how far you have to push it? How far did you ever push it?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:She hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down. Sure you hate her like hell, but...

...but you can't deny a thing.

Deep down in your heart, you still love her. Chicks flutter around you; nothing compares to her. Deep down inside you're still longing for her, wanting to hold her, caress her hair; sharing the moments again, no matter how long you have been separated. You're still hoping she'll change someday, and you two will be one again; better and stronger than ever.

Is it actually possible? Any of you have ever actually had such experience?

They say you should believe in love, but how far you have to push it? How far did you ever push it?

8 years and 3 children later, I woke up and got a divorce.

Eventually, you _and_ your partner deserve better than pretend, no matter how much you love the illusion.

Eventually, if you truelly love them but are not meant to be, you set them free. Eventually, they do the same for you.

Thankfully, I found my soulmate the second time around. I got lucky.

But yes, loving blindly is possible. For how long...is another discussion.

Bratty wrote: Eventually, if you truelly love them but are not meant to be, you set them free. Eventually, they do the same for you.

But if both sides truly love each other, then what's the point of setting each other free? How come they are not meant to be if they truly love each other (thus setting each other free?)

Because some people are not meant for each other, you can love each other but sometimes, it dosn't work, some quirk that annoys both, etc.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Bratty wrote: Eventually, if you truelly love them but are not meant to be, you set them free. Eventually, they do the same for you.

But if both sides truly love each other, then what's the point of setting each other free? How come they are not meant to be if they truly love each other (thus setting each other free?)

Because it takes more than love to live and grow.

Just because two sides love each other, doesn't make them right for each other. Nor does it mean they can live together.

In time, you learn that you both deserve better than just ...love.

Love, as any emotion, fades or grows depending on circumstance, experience, and chemistry. Believe it or not, it can and is reproduced. Love is susceptible to change, as well, so if that the tie that binds, it is playing russian roulette with your future on whether it will continue or whither out. You may not be concerned about the future in the immediate sense, but that is a dangerous view to take. It means more heartache and sometimes end results *kids, finances, moving, etc*

Don't you think you deserve more than something that makes you miserable, no matter how much joy it brings as well?

Life changes and adaptations are something that comes with time.

As time goes along, you run out of time to deal with the drama and crap, and eventually weed to a point of working.

Everyone is different, but no one puts up with bittersweet for too long unless they have something underlying which enjoys being hurt.

I am glad I am married to Robert. We are perfect for each other. I never would have found him had I held on to a dream that would never be, no matter how much my ex, Monty, and I wanted it to be.

If you want an analogy, think about siblings. Sure, you love them and all, but do you want to live with them all your life? Hell, I can't be around my brother for a week without us getting in fights. My friends love me dearly, but only one of them can stand me long enough to have me as a roommate. Just take those analogies and multiply them by a hundred.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:She hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down. Sure you hate her like hell, but...

...but you can't deny a thing.

Deep down in your heart, you still love her. Chicks flutter around you; nothing compares to her. Deep down inside you're still longing for her, wanting to hold her, caress her hair; sharing the moments again, no matter how long you have been separated. You're still hoping she'll change someday, and you two will be one again; better and stronger than ever.

Is it actually possible? Any of you have ever actually had such experience?

They say you should believe in love, but how far you have to push it? How far did you ever push it?

Changing people isn't possible if they don't want to change. That fact, if known and believed by the whole human population, could save millions of marriages. Thinking that someone will change their behaviour patterns is sometimes a symptom of overestimating your importance to them. So ask yourself this question: Does she seem to treat you like you're that important to her?

The feelings sound rather one sided. It doesn't sound reciprocated at all. Moreover, and I don't mean to be cruel, but it doesn't sound that much like love either. "a thing" != love. And if everything depends on her changing, that doesnt speak to well for "the thing" to begin with. Caz is right about changing people, too.

I've been there, or maybe somewhere around the corner from there. I thought along those same lines. Then, after it had been over for a while, I realized, they're really just not a very good human being. You think you love them, but in retrospect, they really just don't deserve it, and most importantly, they don't love you. If they want you around, its for them, its not for mutual happieness. And they want you around for all the wrong reasons, the very reasons you should not want to be with them.
If "she hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down" before, and you stay with her, i promise you, she'll do it again, and again. By you coming back, she knows she can get away with it.

Sorry to sound like a bastard, and all that, but I can all but guarantee you, she ain't the one, and it ain't worth it.

If nothing else, just get some distance, reflect, and try to gain some perspective on the whole situation.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:She hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down. Sure you hate her like hell, but...

...but you can't deny a thing.

Deep down in your heart, you still love her. Chicks flutter around you; nothing compares to her. Deep down inside you're still longing for her, wanting to hold her, caress her hair; sharing the moments again, no matter how long you have been separated. You're still hoping she'll change someday, and you two will be one again; better and stronger than ever.

Is it actually possible? Any of you have ever actually had such experience?

They say you should believe in love, but how far you have to push it? How far did you ever push it?

You can be 'in love' with an idea. You can be 'in love' with the idea of being in 'love'. Some people love others but do not like them, and vice versa.

A successfull relationship requires both love and 'like'. It is not always rose peddles and birthday presents. If all you're relationship is is the 'bells and whistels' then eventually you will crash and burn. At this point, you can think back to the 'good times' but you are ignoring the honest reasons why your partnership failed.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:She hurt you, fucked you up, and broken you down. Sure you hate her like hell, but...

...but you can't deny a thing.

Deep down in your heart, you still love her. Chicks flutter around you; nothing compares to her. Deep down inside you're still longing for her, wanting to hold her, caress her hair; sharing the moments again, no matter how long you have been separated. You're still hoping she'll change someday, and you two will be one again; better and stronger than ever.

Is it actually possible? Any of you have ever actually had such experience?

They say you should believe in love, but how far you have to push it? How far did you ever push it?

I can't say the above experience applies to me honestly. I got hurt, and very angry, although the anger was at myself for being vunerable. Since then, I made an intense effort to not think about the girl or immediately suppressed any desire to see or speak with her again. Seems to have worked quite well. I now focus my energies elsewhere rather than attempts at relationships with womem.

Robert Walper wrote:I can't say the above experience applies to me honestly. I got hurt, and very angry, although the anger was at myself for being vunerable. Since then, I made an intense effort to not think about the girl or immediately suppressed any desire to see or speak with her again. Seems to have worked quite well. I now focus my energies elsewhere rather than attempts at relationships with womem.

Well it's a little bit more complicated:



(1) First, it was never clear whether she loved me or not. One thing for sure; she really want to be loved by me; she actually desired my love; but whether she really loved me in return is questionable.. I didn't know whether she actually love me, I still don't know, and perhaps I never will.

(no offense Rob, but at least in your case it's already clear that she doesn't love you)




(2) Josh told me that she loved me, but not as a person; she merely 'loved' me for what I have been doing for her, for her own selfish desire. In fact, she can never truly love anyone, for a reason I really can't say.




(3) But then, that's why I can't help but keep on wondering. If, somehow, she find strength to reform herself (so then she'll be able to truly love someone, among other things), will she then love me? Or she won't love me anyway?




(4) During early phases of our relationship (when we were friends. Actually it was I who put her on 'friendship zone'.... Until I realized that I really fall in love with her, but it's too late), she showed willingness to reform herself, AND made gestures that she loved me. Actually it was a very blatant gesture; she made it clear that she would only reform if I love her and marry her. Well I did refuse her 'offer', not only because I haven't realized that I actually loved her, but I expected her to reform by herself; by her own strength.

And she did try to reform herself without I marry her, and she was almost succeed! Well at least for a short time. But for those brief times when she was a better person, she again expressed her feelings on me. It was her who actually approached me, but then I was cold as a fish.

And shortly after, she re-lapsed back to her 'evil' persona. We separated, but then I realized that I actually fell in love with her. Deeply.

Then later she came back to me, broken, and being screwed by another guy. I really can't tell you the detail but she apologized. I, having realized my love for her, offered her my world on a platter; ergo, a marriage. She accepted, and promised to reform herself.

So we lived together while she reformed herself, but it was more difficult than the last time. Worse, I was paranoid myself, questioning whether she still loved me after being broken by that guy. It was not an easy ride. But then she kept telling me that she loved me.

Eventually, we have a big fight after I asked her did she really love me, or just chose me merely because I'm "the right guy"? She exploded and went mad, then she re-lapsed and left me, moving back to her parent's house.

Afterwars, we tried to make amend, but I was mad as well; not to mention rational people keep telling me that she's already beyond repair. So I rejected her last 'peace gesture' and accused her of lying to me all the time; merely pretending to love me, while in fact she never loved me anyway. She was then really offended and cursing me; saying that if she actually love me (so my accusation was false), may God put His wrath upon me.

(Yes it may sound ridiculous, but it is costumary among Indonesian people to bring God's wrath into equation when they're angered by false accusation, regardless whether the person who's saying it is actually religious or not. Imagine an atheist saying 'Jesus Christ!' and you got the picture.)




(5) It happened during early August 2004, and despite the fact that it was I who technically dumped her, I was really broken down. I was emotionally wrecked. Totally. But then, I did exactly what you did, Rob. I channeled my energy elsewhere, trying to sink myself in my hobbies and such (ebaying, legacy hardware, STGOD, and others). Of course, I did stupid things like having affair with a married woman, but generally things were going well. Not to mention that Josh helped me greatly with his advice (thanks buddy!).




(6) It is more than a year now, and it seems I have been healing myself. Sometimes the bitter memory came out, but generally things are going well. I dated some chicks and although there were nothing serious, I enjoyed their company. I just tried to indulge myself as much as possible and it seemed to work, and those bitterness are fading away....




(7) .....or are they? Well here's the bomb; recently I browsed friendster.... and stumbled into my ex! Well actually it wasn't her profile (she never bothers with internet); it was her sister's. But then, there is a photograph of her on her sister's profile.

I don't know why, I have no idea why, but just seeing her picture actually brought back all those memories again. Mind you, there were times when she appeared to seriously reform herself, not to mention we were so close during our friendship (almost like lovers).

Not to mention, during our period of living together, there were times when she actually showed her love on me.

I was surprised myself how merely seeing her picture can stir such considerable amount of emotion inside me. It seemed I realized how I've been missing her the whole year, how I've been actually longing to be with her again, how I miss the moment when she was 'good', how stupid I am for NOT realizing that she actually struggled to reform herself (although failed miserably) when we lived together.

Then the doubt came again; at least she made some efforts to reform herself, wasn't it actually signs that she actually love me? But then again, maybe, I said maybe, she did love her back then, but does she still love me now?

I don't know. Don't ask me why, but I find myself wishing that she'll find strength to reform herself once and for all.

But then again, even if she made it, it doesn't mean that she still loves me. In fact, she can be a totally healed person, but doesn't love me anymore because she simply finds someone else. Thus, it can still mean pain to me. But I don't know. Call me idiot, call me hopelessly romantic, but I find myself wishing she would get well no matter what.

I just feel again all the tenderness I've felt for her, with all the accompanying pain, greater than ever. It just erupted like a volcano when I saw her picture.

I don't know why, I really don't know why. It's just a goddamn picture of her.




Millions of people in friendster, and I had to stumble into her pic. It ain't fair. Just when I think I can forget about her. It ain't just fair.




EDIT: when I said 'reform', it's not about religion or such. It is about something else. Something really needs a great effort and willpower to overcome.

I was about twenty years old when things were torpedoed once and for all with the love-crush of my childhood. It was all for good reasons, we wouldn't have worked out then. We were on different paths, both young, immature, and fairly selfish.

At the time, I totally shut it off, as I'm capable of doing, just flip the switch and don't feel anything.

Worked out nicely at the time, just went on with my life.

Then I ran into her a few years later, and it was a hell of a thing. She'd been a pretty girl in school, and in adulthood she blossomed into a hell of a beautiful woman. She was vibrant, confident, moving along with her life. Ah man...

And that's when it finally hit me, and everything that I'd turned off before came back and kicked me right in the nuts.

Messed with my head for a good while.

So I know how it is, brother. But you have to let go and move on.

Someone very close to me, not necessarily on a romantic level, pretty much ruined my ability to take compliments and praise honestly because of lying to me about my writing, my art, and me as a person. She said she liked all three, then after a fight over a totally stupid subject, she proclaimed that she'd only lied about liking it because she was afraid I'd kill myself or something. Which is funny, because I've always thought murder is a hell of a lot more interesting than suicide...

But my point is that if you trust people to get that close to you once and they fuck up, you shouldn't give them another chance. A friend is someone who knows enough about you to ruin you and doesn't, and if she breached that trust, then fuck her, she'll do it again. I don't know her at all, but having read what you've posted, she reminds me of that friend of mine, and I'll say it again just like I said when said friend tried to "make right" with me: I smell a rat.

Petrosjko wrote:Then I ran into her a few years later, and it was a hell of a thing. She'd been a pretty girl in school, and in adulthood she blossomed into a hell of a beautiful woman. She was vibrant, confident, moving along with her life. Ah man...

And that's when it finally hit me, and everything that I'd turned off before came back and kicked me right in the nuts.

Not to be stubborn, but I just wonder, because it didn't worked the second time, does it always the case? If it didn't work the first time, will it never work on the second time?

If a relationship failed the first time, how (im)probably that it will work the second time?

You may think I'm already out of my mind, Josh, and by all means you have the right to think so, but I just wonder, if my ex somehow manages to totally reform (everything), and we meet again in the future, how likely it will work the second time?

(Call me stubborn, but there's something I'd like to share through PM)

Petrosjko wrote:So I know how it is, brother. But you have to let go and move on.

I'm trying, Josh. Although I'm not as good as you in flipping the switch off. Well, I'm not sure if I can stop loving her, but at least I can try to live peacefully as a bachelor. In fact, before I meet her, I never really mind (even enjoyed) to be a bachelor for life.

Thanks for your support, buddy.

Doubtful if it doesn't work the first time it will work afterwards.

People do change, but usually with some sort of real BIG event that causes them to reflect and reevaluate. And then, the change is not always for the better.

Hence the belief and realization that everyone has scars. If you find someone who doesn't, just give em about 5-10 years.

It sucks man. I know. I built my whole life around one man. Gave up family, friends, my personality, my career, my religious beliefs, my sense of identity, everything. Not all at once mind you, but little by little, in effort to make things work.

If it doesn not work, it won't. You can't force it. If it is meant to be, it is a good thing that keeps going, and you keep growing with. The difference between healthy and unhealthy relationships.

Kreshna, it's not crazy.

Here's the thing- every relationship is a give and take thing. If one person is doing all the giving and the other all the taking, then you don't have a relationship. If being with a person sucks you dry, then it's time to walk the hell away.

You've got a hell of a lot to offer, brother. Give it to somebody who actually gives back, makes you stronger instead of draining you.

Petrosjko wrote:Here's the thing- every relationship is a give and take thing. If one person is doing all the giving and the other all the taking, then you don't have a relationship. If being with a person sucks you dry, then it's time to walk the hell away.

Just finished my PM. There are things I actually haven't told you yet. I don't know, according to my story, did she actually try to give?

Petrosjko wrote:You've got a hell of a lot to offer, brother. Give it to somebody who actually gives back, makes you stronger instead of draining you.

Thanks, bro. I really appreciate it. Really.

I'm not sure I'm willing to engage in another relationship, though. I was brokenhearted three times already, and those experiences tell me that I'm not easy to fall in love (it took four years after my first heartbreak to fall in love again), not to mention my loner tendency.

I hope I can still do good while being single. I mean, the definition of giving shouldn't be restricted in relationship terms, right?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Petrosjko wrote:Here's the thing- every relationship is a give and take thing. If one person is doing all the giving and the other all the taking, then you don't have a relationship. If being with a person sucks you dry, then it's time to walk the hell away.

Just finished my PM. There are things I actually haven't told you yet. I don't know, according to my story, did she actually try to give?

Petrosjko wrote:You've got a hell of a lot to offer, brother. Give it to somebody who actually gives back, makes you stronger instead of draining you.

Thanks, bro. I really appreciate it. Really.

I'm not sure I'm willing to engage in another relationship, though. I was brokenhearted three times already, and those experiences tell me that I'm not easy to fall in love (it took four years after my first heartbreak to fall in love again), not to mention my loner tendency.

I hope I can still do good while being single. I mean, the definition of giving shouldn't be restricted in relationship terms, right?

Look at it this way, on the most base of levels:

1. More money.

2. No more chicks using your toothbrush.

If the relationship WORKS, let it work, if it doesn't, let it die.

This is speaking from experience (a child of a broken home *plays violin*)

I give the same verdict as I did to ARSD's "Staying together for the Kids, good or bad?"

It is not, in any way, possible, you WANT it to work, but there's times when it just can't. Thus: Save yourself the heartache.

Not everyone has the switch KAN, I sure don't. Even then repression ain't always healthy (not speaking about Petro so let's not go there). Look some things do not completely die, they change over time, but they don't die and wanting them to doesn't make much difference. Sometimes all we can really do is grit our teeth and keep moving on.

I can tell ya that it won't kill you and you will eventually get to the point where others interest you. Course that takes time and effort but what doesn't take at least one of the two?

frigidmagi wrote:Not everyone has the switch KAN, I sure don't. Even then repression ain't always healthy (not speaking about Petro so let's not go there). Look some things do not completely die, they change over time, but they don't die and wanting them to doesn't make much difference. Sometimes all we can really do is grit our teeth and keep moving on.

Well I'm the kind of guy who tend to holding on, what can I say? :(

frigidmagi wrote:I can tell ya that it won't kill you and you will eventually get to the point where others interest you. Course that takes time and effort but what doesn't take at least one of the two?

Yup. Finding someone else is not my biggest worry, though. In fact, before I met her, I never really cared (it's fun to be single!). It's just my regret why should I met her on the first place.

Thanks, by the way.