Small-arms effectiveness against Dinosaurs?

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Well, this is always my biggest question....

How effective small-arms (not rocket launchers, smoothbore cannons, Vulcan cannons, etc) would be against various species of dinos? For instance, how fast an AK-47 would kill a T-rex? Can a soldier with said weapon, for instance, survive a T-rex charging at him? How about handguns or SMGs against Raptors?

[frigidmagi]

Given the top speed of the T-Rex... I could survive it with a spear and by running away.

But as for the AK-47, the answer is it's going to hurt the T-Rex alot, but you're unlikey to outright kill it without emptying the magzine. This is due to it's sheer size has much has anything else. Imagine trying to drop a rhino or elephant with an Uzi, it's the same principal.

Now a SMG can kill a 6ft tall raptor. These bullets are chunks of metal designed to tear through meat and do alot of damage. The raptor isn't that much bigger than you and it's skin is not bulletproof (isn't near thick enough).

A pistol is the same thing has killing a human with it. You have to hit the right spot. Humans have survived being hit 8 or more times with 9mm rounds and such a raptor can likey survive such hits to.

[Comrade Tortoise]

I have to echo Magi's sentiments here. It depends on calibre, rate of fire, etc.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Given the top speed of the T-Rex... I could survive it with a spear and by running away.

But as for the AK-47, the answer is it's going to hurt the T-Rex alot, but you're unlikey to outright kill it without emptying the magzine. This is due to it's sheer size has much has anything else. Imagine trying to drop a rhino or elephant with an Uzi, it's the same principal.

See, I wonder about that as well. IIRC illegal hunters in Africa hunt down Rhino and Elephants using automatic weapons. Anyone knows how long, averagely, to bring down elephant using assault rifles? I guess we can extrapolate it to estimate how long it needs to kill a T-Rex or a Raptor, can't we?

By the way, I'm not a biologist. Given the same wounds, does it take more time to kill reptile than mammals? (different metabolism, etc) Or the time difference is so small that it doesn't really matter anyway?

[Narsil]

Or the time difference is so small that it doesn't really matters?

I think, technically, Dinosaurs were birds.

But, yeah, if they actually were reptiles, they should have some sort of regenerative ability beyond that of a typical animal. Capable of regrowing limbs and the like.

EDIT: the regrowth of limbs probably wouldn't help it much, as such a process does actually take quite a while

[Mayabird]

Or the time difference is so small that it doesn't really matters?

I think, technically, Dinosaurs were birds.

According to my profs, it's not so much that dinosaurs were birds, but birds are dinosaurs.

Chickadee says ROAR!

[Comrade Tortoise]

Or the time difference is so small that it doesn't really matters?

I think, technically, Dinosaurs were birds.

But, yeah, if they actually were reptiles, they should have some sort of regenerative ability beyond that of a typical animal. Capable of regrowing limbs and the like.

EDIT: the regrowth of limbs probably wouldn't help it much, as such a process does actually take quite a while

Actually, most reptiles cant regenerate limbs. SOme lizards can, but not even most of them. Iguanids and Geckos are about the only ones.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Actually, most reptiles cant regenerate limbs. SOme lizards can, but not even most of them. Iguanids and Geckos are about the only ones.

Given the same "severity" of wounds, would dinos (reptiles? birds) die slower than mammals, faster, or the difference is negligible?

[The Silence and I]

If the blood had a different thickness then death by bleeding might take more or less time, other than that not much difference. Tear the heart to giblets and mammal or reptile, it's going down.

One thing that might help here is the skin, large animals have thicker skin usually, and certain dinosours were very large. But even moderate size reptiles today often have very thick, tough skin. If dinosours had thicker, tougher skin than mammals of similar size then bullets from smaller arms won't penetrate as far, and larger calibers will be slowed down more. Another thing to consider is the skeleton--mammals have a rib cage that stops about halfway down the torso, reptiles and dinosours have ribs along much more of the length. They also have (sometimes) a denser packing of ribs, the end result being more chances bone will slow or stop an otherwise fatal bullet. (And in the case of T-Rex, there are the normal ribs and many smaller "ribs" along the front of the chest which helped to support its bulk when resting on its belly. Not only should the skin be thick, its packed with bone)

In any event I'd not want to have a mere small arms weapon, a lucky shot could take one down, but more likely I'd empty the clip against a larger one without stopping it--hell, even a head shot doesn't mean much, most of a dino's head is bone and muscle, the brain is relatively small and not quite where you might expect it to be (never mind some of them were literally armored).

[The Cleric]

I can't imagine small arms fire being effective against very many dinos at all. Rex's would probably require a VERY good shot with a large caliber rifle to drop (if not some kind of explosive projectile), and even something like raptors would be hard to take (small, wicked fast targets, and you'd have to hit something fairly vital). I wouldn't want to take on dino's with anything smaller than an Abrams.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Alright, so reptiles are harder to take down than mammals, let alone dinos. But how about the penetrating power of weapons like assault rifles, then? IIRC an assault rifle bullet is strong enough to penetrate a brick wall, or am I incorrect?

[frigidmagi]

Gents I'm afriad you're underestimating the power of a modern assault rifle. An AK-47 will not be stopped by even a Rex's skin, it will penerate and it will hurt. Yes it will take a full mag to drop the Rex but that's more due to it's size than anything. Dinosaurs are not tanks, they are not bulletproof. They are living beings, bullets will hurt them.

[Elheru Aran]

As for Kreshna's question about the elephants/rhinos; more often than not poachers will just fill the air with several magazines' worth of lead in the general direction of the animal's body, then keep it under observation from a jeep/land rover until it drops. It's more or less just shooting them as full of lead, and then waiting for them to keel over before delivering a few more shots to the vital areas to do them in and chop off the bits desired.

So, yeah, basically you'd have to use a *lot* of ammo to get something big like a T-rex or Brachiosaurus down. Wouldn't be able to get the huge herbivores down with normal rifle-caliber ammo in a short time except by bringing up something that falls just short of artillery...

[frigidmagi]

Poachers also tend to use older rifles.

[The Cleric]

Frigid, I have no doubts about the PIERCING power of modern assault rifles. I simply doubt a person's ability to hit anythying vital. You have to consider that large dino's make elephants look like toys. These are BIG fucking animals we're talking about.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Frigid, I have no doubts about the PIERCING power of modern assault rifles. I simply doubt a person's ability to hit anythying vital. You have to consider that large dino's make elephants look like toys. These are BIG fucking animals we're talking about.

Yes, I also doubt the person's ability to hit anything vital on someting as large as T-Rex. That's why I'm using poachers as benchmark, because unlike 'real' hunters, they're relatively unskilled to hit vital spots. That's why they're using automatic weapons, that's all.

If we know how much time, approximately, to bring down rhinos or elephants with automatic rifles, then I guess we can estimate the time to bring down a T-Rex, can't we?

Also, well-trained soldiers should be able to hit better spots than poachers. I guess that also counts, doesn't it?

[Elheru Aran]

Not really. Being well-trained in the *military* means you can hit the right bits on a person. Doesn't mean you'll be able to hit 'em on an animal. Hell, there's a reason hunters IRL practice during the off-season with targets showing the locations of their various licensed animals' vitals... while, admittedly, there is some commonality among animal anatomy-- i.e., lungs and heart in the ribcage, liver below the ribs, stomach in the middle of the body behind the liver-- there might not be enough in common in the rex's anatomy to guarantee that all the shots would hit the right spots.

[frigidmagi]

The T-Rex is only 16 feet tall. It's not that much bigger than an elephant (13ft tall) and due to body design the elephant has more volume to stick internal organs in. A saurapod like say brachiaur would require a anti-tank weapon yes, but automatic rifles would be sufficent to drive away or kill a Rex.