LibriumArcana.Games

Courtesy of OneWinged4ngel and Seerow on the WotC board. Discuss.

I have some SERIOUS objections to that 'rebalancing'. I'm not terribly familiar with ToB, but there are some things about that 'New and Improved' variant.

1st and foremost: The Lay on Hands.

Refreshing the pool brings the Paladin's pool of healing back up to the maximum (Paladin level * Charisma Bonus). She may fill her healing pool a number of times per day equal to 1 + half her Charisma modifier (rounded down).

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For any paladin who builds intelligently, that equals a good 1000hp in healing daily come 20th level. Not to mention the removal of effects. While that of itself isn't unbalancing, I feel that the Dragon Shaman (be it newer or not) should not be usurped as far as that goes. Thats one of it's FOUR(ish) class features, and the class (Dragon Shaman) lacks the ability to damage undead through that.

I'd scratch the 'recharging', and keep the ability to remove negative status conditions at the ADDITIONAL cost of healing (not "spend ten points, and remove fatigue for FREE!") As for the effects (assuming the times/day ability was dropped) I could see two paths: The first would be scratching the ability to remove negative levels.

Energizing Touch (Su)
Beginning at 19th level, Paladin may remove negative levels from a subject whenever she spends at least 15 points from her lay on hands pool per negative level the target is afflicted with (It is possible for only a portion of negative levels to be restored if the paladin does not spend enough to cure them all). This is in addition to hit points restored.

Come now, thats pretty frigging ridiculous, especially for 15 points of your total lay on hands. The poison and disease removal is fine and dandy, and an altogether good idea. Revitalizing touch is also too cheap. Just combing over it, the abilities should the the cost of a spell-effect*5 in Lay on Hands. Ability damage is lesser restoration, 3rd level, so 15 points/point of ability damage would be great for that. The refreshing touch should come way before the revitalizing touch. Break enchantment is good, and the cost is heavy enough to represent that this is a rough one. One might consider actually lowering the point cost for that ability, especially considering it's not guaranteed to work.

The second option, IMHO, would be to leave the Lay on Hands ability in that post as they are, and then just lose the spellcasting altogether.

I like the vigilance ability, detecting evil around you is a nice idea, HOWEVER, the constant vigilance strikes me as a bit over the top. Paladins have sense motive and diplomacy on their skill list for a few very good reasons. I feel it's not the Paladin's job to run his sword through every tinge of evil he finds. I can honestly say I've never seen a paladin try to convert someone, try to redeem a sinner, or the fallen. I've rarely seen them rely on their feelings. 'If it dont' show up on detect evil, it's generally good enough for them.' A little actual looking into a problem isn't always a bad idea.

And the Auras....

Aura of Resolve (Ex)
Beginning at 13th level, the paladin gains Aura of Resolve. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Fortitude save every round to any ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

Aura of Faith (Ex)
At 18th level, the paladin gains Aura of Faith. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Will save every round to any one ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

First of all, AGAIN the Paladin is stepping on the toes of the Dragon Shaman. And the Marshall. Given he can't grant a move action, or breath fire (actually, with spell compendium, I guess he did, and that 'variant' give the paladin a little boost in spellcasting as well).

The other glaring thing is the ability to reroll saves once a round, every round (rarely, in any encounter, do folks stray more than 30ft. from each other. Thats why Aura of courage is 10ft, to emphasize that you need to be close to get those benefits.). Abilities like this are the crowning jewel of some prestige classes--and they only get them 1/day. Gimme a break here. There are some spells that do that--at the cost of a good couple-hundred xp every time you cast 'em. Those two abilities are way out of line.

Other stuff:

I've always been a big fan of feat trees, and giving the paladin to choose between a holy mount sent by the gods themselves to aid you in your journey, protecting thine friends, or hitting things harder, really is fine. All that mechanically amounts to is making substituion levels optional class features. Opportunity cost factors into that one, which is balancing within reason.

On the subject of bonus feats, I would recomend making Weapon focus/Weapon specialization feats down the line for a Paladin, with the stipulation that they be with their deity's favored weapon. That sort of thing has always made sense. And smite attacks being treated as good aligned -also- makes a world of sense.


I wouldn't really consider myself through with that one, but so far thats a rather exhasperating rant.

/rant

Just to point out, rerolling saves 1/day isn't much of a crowning ability for a prestige class. A cleric can get that at level 1. *Glances at the Luck domain.*

Edit: And also, how often do you really see paladins played? I mean, seriously. And the World's Largest Dungeon doesn't count; stopping in there to take shots at redeeming every goblin we come across would just cause us to die faster than we already do.

The Paladin is pretty much a clincher for worst of the base-classes, mechanics wise. An alignment and code of conduct requirement combined with a class that, if your DM is mean, is either 2 or 4 levels long(This basically means that you'll likely pour levels into something else after 2 or 4; 2 nets you the all-important Divine Grace, 4 gives you Turning). Incidentally, the next worst is Sorcerer, who has no reason to stay as soon as he can multiclass into something that offers +1 Spellcasting for every level.

The refreshing your healing pool sounds silly, as is the very cheap costs of removing non-HP damage. The auras are a little buggy, but could be worked on.

Personally, I'd like to see the Paladin reworked where you can pick from some basic styles. These are broad ideas, unplaytested.

The Healer: Double Lay On Hands reserve, can remove Disease more often, can remove other ailments at some as-yet-undefined cost of HP from LOH. Can spontaneously cast Cure spells from his spellcasting list.

The Defender: Gains Defensive Stance(As Dwarven Defender), Hold The Line, and weapon specialization at a later level.

Martial Artist: Choose one style from Tome Of Battle, use Crusader's progress and recovery mechanic. Lose all spellcasting capability.

Peasant Hero: Lose proficiency with medium, heavy armour, martial weapons. Gain an Insight bonus to hit, damage, and AC equal to 1/4th your level. Gain Leadership at 8th level for free.

Rogue 9 wrote:Just to point out, rerolling saves 1/day isn't much of a crowning ability for a prestige class. A cleric can get that at level 1. *Glances at the Luck domain.*

Edit: And also, how often do you really see paladins played? I mean, seriously.

Fairly often.

Cynical Cat wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Just to point out, rerolling saves 1/day isn't much of a crowning ability for a prestige class. A cleric can get that at level 1. *Glances at the Luck domain.*

Edit: And also, how often do you really see paladins played? I mean, seriously.

Fairly often.

Which is why I wasn't addressing you.

As for Nitram's ideas, I think it could be workable. There are certainly different types of Paladins and having them specialize like that could make them far more playable.

Comrade Tortoise wrote:As for Nitram's ideas, I think it could be workable. There are certainly different types of Paladins and having them specialize like that could make them far more playable.

Yes, they are quite workable and I've seen similar ideas well executed. The Champion class is Monte Cook's paladin equivalent in Arcana Evolved and its very cool. Essentially its a base class and features, with additional powers and abilities based on what the character is a Champion of.

Heh. Apparently, there's an item in the new Magic Item Compendium that lets paladins use lay on hands to cure ability damage and stuff... with the exact same progression that the version of this paladin rebuild that was up about a year ago used. Coincidence?

Rogue 9 wrote:Heh. Apparently, there's an item in the new Magic Item Compendium that lets paladins use lay on hands to cure ability damage and stuff... with the exact same progression that the version of this paladin rebuild that was up about a year ago used. Coincidence?

Unsurprised.

Mind you, there's a pretty good ability variant for the paladin in Dungeonscape, and it's availiable as an excerpt. It progresses over all 20 levels, and is called Divine Spirit.

As long as we're discussing paladin variants, this one's a scream.