Star Trek: The Quadratic War

[Marcao]

Hey guys,

I wanted to apologize for my posting tempo as of late. The middle of my work week has been 12 hour days and I just got over the busiest time of the year for me. I will make every effort to be posting nightly (as appropriate) moving forward. I also expect the posts to get better (I am rusty AF).

[frigidmagi]

I have to lean towards Kadon on the Federation debate. When the Vulcans found Terra, humanity was huddled in the ruins of a world war and stumbling around like a pack of blind manics. The fact that humanity was able to bring the Vulcans and the Andorians to the table was what gave them their position. Earth became the capital for example because it wasn't Andor or Vulcan but both sides could live with it and so it went. Humanity went on to pull in a lot of allies, in the end even managing to make allies out of the Klingons. Even if most Klingons never really fully trusted humanity, but then that was likely a wise decision to make.

[Lys]

Kadon and Ishtar weren't actually disagreeing with each other, they were just approaching the same concept from different directions. The key factor giving Earth its advantage is that it was a neutral third party. While it's to the credit of humanity that they successfully leveraged that advantage, there's no particular reason why another species could not have done the same in similar circumstances. Given such a formative experience, it's only natural that Starfleet has developed an institutional inclination towards approaching problems from a diplomatic angle, which has demonstrably greatly benefited both humanity and the Federation in the long run.

[Cynical Cat]

Sure Lys, but you also said this bit:

Code: Select all

What makes the Federation different is a matter of circumstance more than anything else. The four founding races were roughly[b] equally matched in strength[/b], and faced with the threat posed by the Rihannsu, it made sense for them to form a defensive alliance on equal terms. 

That statement, from a Klingon perspective, is not true. Kadon's points all address the fact that from a Klingon point of view, the Federation is a bizarro land where the weakest founding partner becomes the political center of the alliance based purely on something as ephemeral (from a Klingon viewpoint) as diplomatic convenience.

[Lys]

From the Romulan point of view, the humans more or less did what they would have in their place were it not for their complex history with the Vulcans. Of course she views them becoming the Federation's centre of mass as a "just as planned" kind of thing, when reality was closer to "well that happened, what now?"

[White Haven]

[Lys]

A glossary of Romulan terms Lys makes use of:

Rihan = "Declared" = Romulan (adj)
Rihanh = "The Declared" = Romulan race
Rihannsu = "Declared Ones" = Romulans
Rihanha = "[One who is] Declared" = A Romulan

Havran = "Changed" = Reman (adj)
Havranh = "The Changed" = Reman race
Havrannsu = "Changed Ones" = Remans
Havranha = "[One who is] Changed" = A Reman

(Havran actually means "traveller" but i think "changed" fits better, so that's what it means now.)

ch'Rihan = "Of the Declared" = Romulus
ch'Havran ="Of the Changed" = Remus
Latasam Stelai Rom'lnz = "Star Road of the People" = Romulan Star Empire

Leih = "One who commands" = The position of commander, not the rank
Rekkhai = "[My] superior" = Sir/Ma'am, formal address towards a superior
Ie Rekkhai = "Yes [my] superior" = Emphatic affirmative reply to superior
Daise = "Foremost" = Chief, friendly way of addressing one's CO
d'Galae ch'Rihan = "Grand Fleet of the Declared" = Romulan Star Fleet

Erein = "Antecenturion" = Ensign (OF-0)
erei'Arrain - "Sub-Centurion" = Lieutenant Junior Grade (OF-1)
Arrain = "Centurion" = Lieutenant (OF-2)
khre'Arrain = "Centurion-General" = Lieutenant Commander (OF-3)
erei'Riov = "Sub-Commander" = Commander (OF-4)
Riov = "Commander" = Captain (OF-5)

khre'Riov = "Commander-General" = Commodore (OF-6)
Enarrain = "Senior Centurion" = Rear Admiral (OF-7)
Erei'enriov - "Sub-Senior Commander" = Vice Admiral (OF-8)
Enriov = "Senior Commander" = Admiral (OF-9)
khre'Enriov = "Senior Commander-General" = Fleet Admiral (OF-10)

Praetor/Praetrix = "One who leads" = Shogun
Imperator/Imperatrix = "Sovereign ruler" = Tennō

(Those last two aren't really Romulan, but fuck it it's what i was using in 2013.)

[frigidmagi]

Gonna be two places at once Marcoa?

For the record I'm waiting on Cat's response.

[Lys]

Well the two meetings are explictly nine hours apart, so Cretak should have no trouble attending both of them.

Cynical Cat, while there is no canon source establishing how the Klingons got cloaking technology, it's very strongly implied the Romulans gave it to them in exchange for M/AM reactors and the D7 Battlecruiser during a brief alliance of the two empires. That interpretation is what i was expecting we would go with. Relatedly, while there is little evidence supporting it, i'm of the opinion that the first generation Bird of Prey was a joint Romulan-Klingon project stemming from the same alliance. We never see the Romulans use it because they don't appear during the movie era, and by TNG whereas the Klingons are fielding updated (B'rel) and enlarged (K'vort) Birds of Prey, the Romulans retired it.

[Cynical Cat]

That was the case before Discovery.

[Lys]

For all that Discovery might pretend to be part of the main Star Trek continuity, it frankly has every indication of being part of some alternate timeline. There's just too much that doesn't really fit with everything else. Honestly I'd prefer to ignore it.

[Cynical Cat]

That might be true, but that's Havoc's call, not ours. The Klingon cloak is broken by the Feds, which does give them a good reason to trade for Romulan cloak tech and gives the Feds a good reason to feel confident that the Romulan cloak tech will be rendered relatively useless by the Federations acquisition of it in "The Enterprise Incident" (which obviously doesn't happen). Ultimately it isn't important because the Klingon's mastery of cloak tech and the Federation's inability to get it to work reliably is also supported by Star Trek VI and "The Pegasus".

[Lys]

Pretty sure variants of "I know how to stop the Borg" conversation has happened thousands of times by now, with pretty consistent results. Here's Ishtar's idea: We cannot and will not stop the Borg, but that's no excuse not to try. Here's Ishtar's idea if she knew we had a Changeling in the fleet: Impress upon him that if the Borg are not stopped here and now they will eventually assimilate the galaxy, and then simply send him home. The Dominion is bound to allow an actual Changeling through the blockade to be welcomed back at the Founder Homeworld. With any luck, actually seeing - through Kalpov's eyes - the Borg devouring the Alpha Quadrant will make the Greak Link realize that this is their last chance to stop them, and the entire Dominion fleet will ride out to the rescue. Alternatively they'll be so terrified they'll withdrawn into some godforsaken planet out in the halo stars and hope to hide from the Borg there forever. So you know, bit of a flip of a coin, but what else can you do but roll the dice in the face of the apocalypse?

[White Haven]

Leyton's initial reaction, meanwhile, is to bypass the Borg issue entirely and try to crawl inside Dad's head looking for clues.

[Lys]

Honestly that seems like a completely reasonable reaction. Leyton is a manipulative bastard, and nobody knows that better or more personally than Leyton Jr. Of course he's going to disbelieve and try to cut to the heart of what's really going on. Also yes, the Romulans would be rather less concerned with the fact that Leyton Sr. attempted a coup, and more with the fact that he failed.

[White Haven]

Crap, Lys thinks I'm being reasonable. Something's deeply wrong.