Eclipse Phase: Breaking Light

[rhoenix]

Rhoenix, I need you to do a full spread on where you get your attribute numbers. You're in an exalt, so that means that you are benefiting from a morph bonus on several attributes, which factors in to skills.

Got it. Skills and Attributes are now in proper tables, with bonuses listed according to source.

[rhoenix]

I edited the Eclipse Phase Wiki to include a link to our shopping list, and I added the shopping list for my character Isaac.

[Hotfoot]

A reminder to everyone, you might want to put in your wish list to that page so I can look it all over before game and see what's reasonable for you to try and get your hands on before we continue on with things at Pathfinder City.

[frigidmagi]

I'm gonna note Hotfoot is being alot nicer about it then I am guys. So if you don't get anything, you have only yourselves to blame.

[White Haven]

Hey CynCat. I'm doing virus-scans on a customer system rightnow with 'Karim' as the user name. My first, first thought was you raging that it's Kerem, dammit!

[Lys]

Found this online and my first thought was this game.

[Hotfoot]

Nice find :)

[Lys]

I also found a picture that looks like Captain Stirling's modified powered armour:

[rhoenix]

The picture of the woman looks almost exactly as I'd pictured Blackjack, so that works nicely.

As for the good Captain Sterling, it looks good - though it does appear to be missing his trademark jetpack.

[Hotfoot]

I can almost see it being the protrusion on the back. The real question is where are the wings.

These are pretty cool finds thus far Lys, thanks for sharing.

[Lys]

For the most part it seems that it's either wings or over the shoulder weapon mounts. I was unable to find a picture with both... or at least I was so at first. Just gave it another whirl and turned up a couple decent ones. Guess it's up to General Havoc to pick his favourite from the three.





(The gun on the second isn't actually shoulder-mounted, but from that angle you can pretend.)

[Hotfoot]

I rather like the black and white one for Captain Sterling's Armor (even if it is likely some godforsaken Glitter Boy variant). Somewhere between that and the first one are where I really see his armor.

[Lys]

All three are from Rifts, because it seems Rifts has some pretty cool powered armour designs. I looked all over the place for something that fit the idea I got of Stirling's armour, including pictures of mecha that didn't have scalable elements in them. Something from Starship Troopers would have been nice, because Jovians, but the closest one is a toy. I did find a lot of cool stuff, but in the end Rifts provided the closest matches to what I was picturing. First one is a fanmade specops and urban operations powered armour. It's my favourite, though admittedly flightless, the bulge in the back could be a jetpack as you said. I'm not sure what the second one is, but it does look like some sort of flight-capable Glitter Boy, don't know if official or fanmade. The third is a SAMAS suit from the books. Big question is whether any of this matches Havoc's mental image; it's his character after all.

[Hotfoot]

RIFTS did have some pretty sweet mechanical designs, and some cool artwork, not going to lie. The setting was actually kind of cool, just the rules were abysmal. Maybe something from the Germans in RIFTS would work...

[frigidmagi]

While I like Glitterboy, I'm gonna be rather firmly against on the subject of them flying. That's just silly.

[Lys]

It's only silly if you try to make a Glitterboy flight capable with the Boom Gun, because it will fall over and hurt itself. The one in the picture doesn't have a Boom Gun though, opting for something rather smaller, at which point adding some flight equipment just turns it into a shiny Sam.

[frigidmagi]

Then what's the point? The whole reason for the Glitter boy is the boom gun. The armor is nice, but if you're flying, you're asking for a missile up the ass and the armor isn't designed for anti-missile work. You're basically throwing away the Glitter boy's strengths and up playing it's weaknesses.

Naw, I'm gonna have to stand by my reasoning here.

[Lys]

You could argue that it's not longer a Glitter Boy if you take away the Boom Gun, but that doesn't seem be the way Rifts runs it. There's an anti-aircraft variant called the Hawkeye that doesn't have the Boom Gun either, but they still call it a GB. You could also argue that it's not really Glitter Boy if it's smaller and lighter armoured on top of not having a Boom Gun, but the Point variant is exactly that and they still call it a GB. So ultimately a flight-capable GB is just a SAMAS with a different lineage. It won't have the size, armament, or armour of a Chromium Guardsman, that would be silly, but it would still be considered a variant of the design. If you say there's no point to the Sammies either, then that's something else, but I think there's a huge advantage from the rapid mobility afforded by the flight. If there's hostile AA then you simply skim the deck or start walking.

[Cynical Cat]

Then what's the point? The whole reason for the Glitter boy is the boom gun. The armor is nice, but if you're flying, you're asking for a missile up the ass and the armor isn't designed for anti-missile work. You're basically throwing away the Glitter boy's strengths and up playing it's weaknesses.

Naw, I'm gonna have to stand by my reasoning here.

You would have a point, but that's not how the rules work in Rifts. Which means Hotfoot gets the point because he's the one that mentioned how bad Rifts rules are. Sorry frigid.

[frigidmagi]

You could argue that it's not longer a Glitter Boy if you take away the Boom Gun, but that doesn't seem be the way Rifts runs it. There's an anti-aircraft variant called the Hawkeye that doesn't have the Boom Gun either, but they still call it a GB. You could also argue that it's not really Glitter Boy if it's smaller and lighter armoured on top of not having a Boom Gun, but the Point variant is exactly that and they still call it a GB.

You can call a M-113 a tank all you want but that don't make it a tank. The fact that books are prepared to be silly cuts no ice with me. It's a bad design even for mecha.

It won't have the size, armament, or armour of a Chromium Guardsman, that would be silly, but it would still be considered a variant of the design.

Expect the armament and armor is the point fo the design! I have no problem telling the Rifts designers they fucked a pooch hard here. If you want something that operates like a SAMAS... Get a fucking SAMAS don't try to maul a GB into it, because then you're wrecking a weapon system by making it preform a role it's not to design to do. This is sending me into a swamp to find a tank road all over again.

If you say there's no point to the Sammies either, then that's something else, but I think there's a huge advantage from the rapid mobility afforded by the flight. If there's hostile AA then you simply skim the deck or start walking.

I'm of two minds on the SAMAS. As a weapon of the 21st United States military prepping for possible near peer warfare (as the Rifts fluff implies anyways) it's... honestly not a very good weapon system. Anything it can do, a helicoptor or a drone can do better and likely cheaper. Plus a helicoptor has other advantages.

As a weapon system of the rather insane Coalition States, it's actually not a bad tool for dealing with urban insurrection and patroling the wildlands. You won't be fighting a well organized, led and equipped force there. At worse you'll be fighting a magical warlord or something at which point a SAMAS patrol can preform decently if not outstandingly. The thing is the CS isn't facing professional armies backed by 21/20th century style states. Even the Toliken Campaign wasn't that (I will refrain from my usual massive rant on how that was handled).

Plus the weapon designers of the CS are fucking insane and place little inherent value on the lives of their troops. So the fact that a helicoptor can provide better protection and more lotter time can be tossed aside in favor of the SAMAS psychological effects, speed and the mentality it encourages.

I can accept the idea of a mecha military force, I do love heavy gear weapon systems after all, but the Rifts ones are frankly even for mecha horroribly designed.

[Lys]

The point of having flight systems on powered armour is to enhance its mobility, not to use it as a gunship, that's stupid. Flight is there to assist the powered armour in doing its job, not to give it a different job. Obviously you don't use your armour's flight system to go bounding off into the skies when there's a hostile AA grid in the area, and when you need a gunship, you call real gunship, you don't send in the powered armour to pinch-hit unless it's an emergency. Now the Coalition States are a bunch of technobarbarians who have to make do with what they've got, and if what they've got is flying powered armour, then that's what gets press-ganged into the gunship role. I'm not arguing that this is how they were meant to be used when NEMA designed them, though.

As for the term Glitter Boy, it seems to mean a shiny powered armour with Chromium Guardsman aesthetics just as much as it means an actual G10 Chromium Guardian. Obviously the Point GB isn't a Chromium Guardsman any more than an M24 Chaffee is an M46 Patton, but it is a shiny powersuit with similar aesthetics. Apparently that's enough for it to be considered a variant on the theme and get the name. It might be lazy terminology, but that's what they went with. So when I say that the picture I put up looks to be a flying Glitter Boy variant, I might as well be saying it looks like a SAMAS with Glitter Boy aesthetics.

Also, while the G10 sits at the edge of the divide between mecha and powered armour, most of the Samies are considerably smaller and thus very much power suits rather than mecha.

[General Havoc]

Not to jump unduly into this conversation, as an oldschool Rifts fanboy, but that black and white picture is the closest to what I picture for Captain Sterling's power armor. Picture that one crossed with elements of the first one. Neither are perfect, but then neither would be.

[frigidmagi]

The point of having flight systems on powered armour is to enhance its mobility, not to use it as a gunship, that's stupid. Flight is there to assist the powered armour in doing its job, not to give it a different job.

Expect that is not how they are used. SAMAS engage their targets while airborne, often preforming CAS duties. If it was a mobility enchancer, they would actually be better off engaging from the ground. So that's... power armor being used as gunship. Which is stupid, but that's what the CS uses them for.

Now the Coalition States are a bunch of technobarbarians who have to make do with what they've got, and if what they've got is flying powered armour, then that's what gets press-ganged into the gunship role. I'm not arguing that this is how they were meant to be used when NEMA designed them, though.

While barbaric in it's actions, government and policy, the CS is not a technobarbarian organization but a fascist state. They are not only capable of producing the SAMAS, but of creating entirely new advanced weapon systems. Between that, their ability to create new forms of life at Lone Star and maintain an industrial civilization, they can't be written off as mere barbarians or even a warlord state. The CS is state in the very modern sense of the word. An cartoon evil facist state (despite being so evil that COBRA would rise up against it but somehow it's wrong to engage in open warfare with... I'm drifting back into the Tolkien rant, sorry) but an industrialize, even somewhat urban state none the less. Such a state capable of building flying troop transports and Spidertanks should be able to construct a gunship. They don't. What I find really disturbing is that they're the only US sucessor state.

As I understand NEMA was a paramilitary law enforcement group wasn't it? As a law enforcement tool, there's certainly a use for SAMAS (Although why they need weapons that heavy is a bit of a question).

Also, while the G10 sits at the edge of the divide between mecha and powered armour, most of the Samies are considerably smaller and thus very much power suits rather than mecha.

As far as I am concerned, power suits are mecha.

[Lys]

Not to jump unduly into this conversation, as an oldschool Rifts fanboy, but that black and white picture is the closest to what I picture for Captain Sterling's power armor. Picture that one crossed with elements of the first one. Neither are perfect, but then neither would be.

Now that you mention it, combining the first two imagines would hit all the elements of Stirling's battlesuit. The first one provides you the rail-machine-gun and rocket launcher, while the second has the overall look and wings. Unfortunately getting it perfect usually requires an art commission, but I'm happy I was able to find something close! Maybe Captain Stirling's profile on Obsidian Portal doesn't have to be sadly lacking a picture any more. ^_^

Expect that is not how they are used. SAMAS engage their targets while airborne, often preforming CAS duties. If it was a mobility enchancer, they would actually be better off engaging from the ground. So that's... power armor being used as gunship. Which is stupid, but that's what the CS uses them for.

I'm arguing that a flying powered armour design isn't inherently stupid, not that the CS use theirs in a sensible manner.

While barbaric in it's actions, government and policy, the CS is not a technobarbarian organization but a fascist state. They are not only capable of producing the SAMAS, but of creating entirely new advanced weapon systems. Between that, their ability to create new forms of life at Lone Star and maintain an industrial civilization, they can't be written off as mere barbarians or even a warlord state. The CS is state in the very modern sense of the word. An cartoon evil facist state (despite being so evil that COBRA would rise up against it but somehow it's wrong to engage in open warfare with... I'm drifting back into the Tolkien rant, sorry) but an industrialize, even somewhat urban state none the less. Such a state capable of building flying troop transports and Spidertanks should be able to construct a gunship. They don't.

Alright then, that's fair, but it just puts us back to the CS doesn't use their flying power armour in a sensible fashion. It's just the reason is stupidity rather than necessity. Though I am kind of curious about the Toliken rant, in particular becasue I haven't been able to find what exactly the Sorcerer's Revenge that got the Quebequois to switch sides was.

What I find really disturbing is that they're the only US sucessor state.

There's the Federation of Magic right next to them, the Republicans down in Virginia, Northern Gun and Manisque Imperium in the Michigan panhandle, the Pecos Empire in southern Texas, the Colorado Baronies in Colorado, and a large smattering of city states all over the ruins of the USA. Not to mention that all the Coalition States started as independent entities before they joined up. Main reason why successor states are concentrated in the middle US is because both the coasts got completely fucked over during the cataclysm.

As I understand NEMA was a paramilitary law enforcement group wasn't it? As a law enforcement tool, there's certainly a use for SAMAS.

The Northern Eagle Military Alliance was described to me as 22nd Century NATO. I'm not sure that's quite what it was, but it does seems to have been a formal, heavily integrated military alliance between Canada, the USA, and Mexico. Apparently they had the bulk of the military materiel, and they're the reason enough of humanity survived in the Middle USA and Eastern Canada for there to be a Coalition States in the first place.

[frigidmagi]

I'm arguing that a flying powered armour design isn't inherently stupid, not that the CS use theirs in a sensible manner.

That's fair.

There's the Federation of Magic right next to them, the Republicans down in Virginia, Northern Gun and Manisque Imperium in the Michigan panhandle, the Pecos Empire in southern Texas, the Colorado Baronies in Colorado, and a large smattering of city states all over the ruins of the USA. Not to mention that all the Coalition States started as independent entities before they joined up. Main reason why successor states are concentrated in the middle US is because both the coasts got completely fucked over during the cataclysm.

I don't know the Republicans, but the Federation of Magic, is most certainly not a sucessor state to the USA, it has nothing to do with the USA other then being situated on it's ruins, which is not enough to make you a successor state. Neither are the Pecos Empire, Colorado Baronies, Northern Gun. They are new states that have little if any influence taken from the USA. The CS on the other hand openly declares itself as an heir to the US and pumps out alot of propaganda to that effect. To be fair before the Emperor took power, they had alot in common with the US in regards to culture and legal set up.