Mad Renaissance STGOD

[General Havoc]

That is a spectacular timeline, one so good that I shall accept it in its entirety, rather than nitpicking this or that.

[frigidmagi]

Good timeline man. It has my vote.


Duchess, that is an amazing string of titles there but I have no idea how to pronounce your Monarch's name. That said Welcome to the game!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I endorse Cav's timeline fully, of course. And the name is pronounced A-yu-roog. Feofaniya is Theophania to the usual English rendering, and she'd probably be called Empress Theophania of the Mongols by most Europeans of the time! Bordžigin is the Russian rendering of Genghis Khan's Clan Name.

[Cavalier]

Alright, next draft for the timeline covering Italy. I talked over with Ben everything that had gone on in Italy and went by it piece-by-piece with him, but if there are any objections or desired additions, post in the thread. It only goes up to 1453 thanks to a lack of any established events of significance after that point. Obviously, working out what has been happening the past couple of decades is desirable.

Italy History Highlights

1196: Conquest of Naples by Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI.

1197: Battle of Messinia saves Sicily from Imperial invasion.

1199: Pope Innocent III recognizes Tancred of Lecce as legitimate King of Sicily.

1200: Treaty of Messinia divides Sicily between Hohenstaufen Naples and Norman Sicily.

1348: Nicola Rienzo the Elder seizes power in Rome from the nobility, acting as legate to the Pope in Avignon. His attempt to restore Roman institutions finds favor with the masses. Rival Hungarian and Anjou claimants to Naples try to gain his favor with gifts and military support.

1349: Rienzi, with the aid of Hungarian cavalry, defeats the old Roman nobility in battle outside Rome. The new Consul fails to move effectively to crush his enemies, and tepidly backed down after his declarations restoring the Roman Empire are ignored in Italy and condemned by the Pope. By the end of the year, Rienzo has fled Rome and sought sanctuary with the Emperor.

1351: Nicola Rienzo released from custody in Germany after reconciling himself with the Pope. He is allowed to return to Rome and establishes a new noble clan led by his son, Nicola Rienzo the Younger.

1377: Return of the Papacy to Rome.

1378: Election of Urban VI as Pope, under the threat of a Roman mob. Urban soon alienates his Cardinals with his heavy-handed manner, who flee to Avignon and declare his election void as having been conducted under duress. They elect a Frenchman as Pope Clement VII. Beginning of the Western Schism.

1380: Louis d'Anjou, with the support of King Charles V of France, sets off with a commission from the Avignon Pope Clement VII to reclaim Rome. He is promised a Kingdom of Adria to be carved from the Papal States. Queen Joan of Naples turns against the Roman Papacy, accepting French gold and promises of freedom from her vassalage to the Papal States.

1381: Pope Urban VI flees Rome for the safety of Venice at the approach of Anjou's army. Nicola Rienzo the Younger, using his father's memory, rallies the lower classes and sympathetic Roman nobles in defense of the city. Rome holds out against the approach of Anjou, whose expedition is ill-prepared to prosecute a siege. The death of Charles V of France leaves Anjou without enough money to sustain the effort, and the army leaves after a desultory two-month siege.

1382: Rome restructured in the mold of Rienzo the Elder's reforms decades ago. Rienzo the Younger proclaims himself Consul and holds the city "in the name of the Senate and the People of Rome, for the true Pope."

1383: Charles d'Anjou declares his support for Pope Urban, and presses the Anjou claim on Naples. Urban promises Charles support in exchange for the creation of a duchy for the Pope's nephew. With an eye toward reinstating his control of Rome, the Pope returns to the city alongside his new champion's army.

1384: The Roman-Papal invasion of Naples overthrows Queen Joan. Rienzo the Younger is distinguished in battle alongside his new "legions." Charles d'Anjou made King of Naples, and has Joan murdered. The powerful new Neapolitan king ignores the Pope's feudal pretensions, leaving him reliant on the Rienzi and the new Roman state.

1386: Charles d'Anjou assassinated during an attempt to claim the throne of Hungary. His young son Ladislaus succeeds him in Naples.

1388: Papal States reduced to obedience to the Pope by the new Roman Army in a series of campaigns stretching several years.

1389: Death of Urban VI. The papal election is contested between the urban mob, ruled by Rienzo's faction in the city, and the powerful partisans of Charles d'Anjou in Naples. The first election results in a Neapolitan candidate, but the storming of the Conclave by the Rienzi's partisans leads to the selection of a more sympathetic pontiff from the Massimo baronial family. The breach leads to war between Naples and Rome.

1391: Siege of Naples ended with the brutal sack of the city by Roman forces. King Laidslaus dies of a fever during the siege, leaving his elder sister Joan the sole remaining heir to Naples. Rienzo swiftly forces Joan into a marriage, proclaiming himself King of Naples.

1392: As absolute master of the Roman territory, Renzi reorders the city to better reflect its Latin roots. With the blessings of the new Pope, he adopts the title Principes Senatus and proclaims the re-establishment of the Roman Republic. The barons and nobles of Rome are made members of the Senate, and efforts begin to integrate Naples into the Roman state.

The sudden upending of the Italian balance of power, and the obvious subservience of the pontiff, causes much of Northern Italy to shift its allegiances to the Avignon Papacy. This in turn provides Rienzo with an excuse to begin a campaign to consolidate rule over the rest of of the peninsula.

1396-1412: Roman advance into northern Italy, contested by Florence, Venice, and Milan. Early sieges south of the Po go well for the Romans, though the staunch defense of Florence is a serious blow to the Republic. Efforts to invade the Po River Valley are repeatedly thwarted by the heavy Milanese cavalry, supported by experienced condottieri. In the end political turmoil in Milan excited by Roman agents gives them a foothold in the far north. The Visconti are eventually defeated in a field battle around Parma, with the pursuing Roman armies invited into the city by radicals.

1414: The threat of an Imperial intervention at the fall of Milan is enough to bring the war to a temporary close. Rome required time to digest its new conquests, and had not had the slightest success in building a navy to challenge Venice. In turn the fall of Milan had left Rome unquestionably superior on land and eliminated any chance of the anti-Roman coalition succeeding except through a foreign intervention that carried untold risks. The peace that followed was a decidedly uneasy and ambiguous one, with everyone understanding that Rome would renew the war soon enough.

1418: A coup in Genoa carried out by pro-Roman, anti-Venetian nobles switches that city's adherence to Rome. In response Venice and Savoy declare war on Genoa, rapidly bringing the city under siege. Emperor Sigismund threatens to bring a German army into Italy to restore Imperial authority over Milan. The Roman Senate narrowly voted in favor of war at the urgings of Principes Rienzius, who took to the field with an army to relieve Genoa.

1420: The Imperial army having never materialized due to the war in Bohemia, Rome has liberated and then annexed Genoa and brought Savoy to heel. Other cities in Italy switch their allegiance, fired by Roman propaganda and given the opportunity to retain their privileges with new titles. Only Venice continues to offer substantial resistance, with the Empire, Hungary, and France too preoccupied to intervene.

1424: Roman armies have occupied most of the Terra Firma and penetrate overland into Dalmatia. The mercenaries hired by Venice have little stomach for combat with the increasingly experienced legions, though seaborne raids punish cities all over Italy. By the end of the year Venice is brought under siege from the landward side, starting a contest that will last twenty years.

1426: The first attempt to blockade Venice ends in utter catastrophe, with the destruction of much of the Roman-Genoan fleet.

1430: Another major sea battle off Brindisium leads to a decisive Venetian victory, keeping the Adriatic open for commercial shipping.

1432: Frustrated, the Romans seek to consolidate their hold on the rest of Italy. They demand the submission of Florence, abrogating an agreement from 1412 leaving Tuscany neutral. The proud Florentines refuse the ultimatum and join the Venetians in their war against Rome.

1434: Florence comes under siege by the Romans, however, having recently completed a modernization of her fortifications, the city holds out for a year. Eventually, the possibility of starvation, and the inevitability of eventual defeat forces Cosimo de Medici to sue for peace, but from a position of strength following the destruction of a roman attempt to under mine her walls. Florence is granted civic independence and representation in the senate in exchange for financial and technical considerations, and subervience to Rome. Acknowledging that the best place for dangerous men is on their side, the Romans also grant the Medici the Governorship of Tuscany.

1436: The costs of the siege begin to bite heavily for the Venetians, who are forced to withdraw from some of their far-flung Mediterranean outposts. The void is gradually filled by the Knights Hospitallier on Rhodes.

1440: Venice is shorn of all her colonies save the crown jewel of Crete. Sentiment inside the city turns increasingly toward peace to save the commercial empire. The accession of the relatively inexperienced Julius Rienzius to the post of Principes Senatus later in the year encourages resistance, especially after Rienzius declares to the Senate that Venice will be treated like Carthage.

1444: Minor Roman success opposite Taranto manages to finally threaten Venetian control of the Adriatic.

1445: A Roman force manages to evade the Venetian Navy and lands on Crete, swiftly overrunning the island outside the citadel of Candia.

1446: Exhausted by the siege and commercially broken, Venice sues for peace with Rome. The Senate dispatches a Medici intermediary to discuss a settlement as a slap in the face to Rienzius. Venice will be forced to acknowledge Roman sovereignty and to surrender Crete to the Republic. In exchange the city will be placed under the propraetorship of the Medici and allowed full autonomy with its domestic affairs and leadership. The Venetians agree to the terms, but bitterly resent the upstart Romans and the loss of their empire.

1447: Partisans of the Rienzi clan force through a Triumph for Julius Rienzius. The Senate is split over the action, with the old baronial families of the Orsini, Colonna, Massimo, and Berberini leading the opposition. The lower classes, promised spoils from Venice and the rest of Italy, riot in favor of Rienzius and drive the recalcitrant Senators from Rome.

1448: A desperate appeal for help from Byzantium is made to Italy and the rest of Europe. The new Emperor Constantine declares his willingness to unite the Eastern Church with that of the West. Which Western Church is carefully left ambiguous. Byzantine envoys are invited to Rome where Pope John XXIII, under severe pressure by the Senate, attempts to meet Byzantine theological demands. The negotiations eventually break down on the filoque clause, and the Byzantines leave for talks in Peniscola.

1450: More rioting in Rome, provoked by the opposition Senatorial families, requires the deployment of the army to maintain order. The private forces of the opposition use the opportunity to seize several old castles around Rome and blockade the city. Rienzius is forced to pass an amnesty through the Senate, restoring formal opposition to his rule.

1452: A messenger from the Byzantines announces the complete capitulation of the Emperor on the union talks. In return, Principes Rienzius leads an army and navy to the relief of Constantinople. The navy led by the Venetian fleet shattered the Turkish attempts to blockade the straits of the city, and allowed the unloading of a substantial army inside Constantinople. Several desperate Turkish assaults to overwhelm the defenders by sheer force of numbers are beaten off. The siege continues on for nine more months as the Ottomans pour their efforts into taking the city.

1453: The siege of Constantinople is finally lifted by the approach of a Serbian and Hungarian relief army into Thrace. The weakened Turks are forced to flee the field rather than confront the prospect of fighting fresh opponents and facing a breakout from the city. Constantine honors Rienzius with a Triumph through the shattered and desolate city. Constantinople is made a protectorate of the Roman Republic, with the Paleologous Dynasty left their title and civil administration of what remains of the Byzantine Empire, subject to the oversight of a Roman governor.

1454: Negotiations at Ravenna resolve the status of the Patriarch of Constantinope, who is forced to acknowledge the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff. Orthodox church practices are left untouched despite the Orthodox concession on the filoque and other theological issues, and the legitimacy hesychasm is left ambiguously unaddressed. The exhausted Greeks in the City stage several riots but those are contained by the city garrison and are half-hearted in the wake of the bitter siege. Other Orthodox countries react with scorn and disgust, with Great Serbia and Muscovy declaring themselves to be the true heirs to the "fallen" Byzantine Empire and the Comnenus dynasty in Trebizond reiterating its claims to the Imperial throne. The activities of the Ottoman Sultan Mehmet also make clear that the Turks are not resigned to the loss and will almost certainly mount another siege, requiring a substantial Roman garrison to hold on to Constantine's capital.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

(See new post)

A provisional and non-official map roughly showing boundaries to give an idea of the NPC powers and their relation to your own. Can be updated.

[frigidmagi]

Note, my nation is not the Kingdom of Toulouse, but the Kingdom of Occitania. Also the Balhares are a possession of Silicy not Spain. Otherwise I have no problems.

Sidenote: Whooo You have the White Sheep in there! I love those guys, they're nuts.

[Academia Nut]

Actually, the Spanish did claim the Baleares and I decided not to argue the point. It is why I have Tunisia.

[frigidmagi]

Ah fair enough, I withdraw that objection then, sorry folks.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

[frigidmagi]

Thank you very much Duchess. That was quick.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

And here's a final version:





Cyprus was not a Venetian possession and is still an independent Crusader Kingdom. Chris and I were thinking that assignment Morea and Corfu as protectorates of Skanderbeg's Albanian state as Venice's Empire disintegrated under Roman pressure made the most sense, and of course there is an independent Republic of Ragusa as a Venetian trade rival.

[Cavalier]

Anyway, next part of the timeline covering Germany and Central Europe. In general if there was no serious deviation from what was otherwise going on, it doesn't feature. So if someone really wants to do something with the Hanseatic League or Saxony or whatever, quite fine. And again, this is a draft subject to the approval of all concerned, so if you want to add something in or change it, by all means.

Central European History Highlights
1386: Escape of Duke Leopold of Austria from the defeat of Sempach. The slaughter of mercenaries in the front ranks of the battle buy time for the Duke and nobility loyal to the Habsburgs to flee.

1388: Having raised another army with the assistance of his father-in-law Barnabo Visconti, Leopold invades the Swiss Confederacy again. Aiming to defeat Zürich, his advance along the city's lake shoreline brought out the combined army of the rebellious cantons. The use of early artillery and presence of experienced condottieri loaned from Milan proved decisive in breaking the heavily outnumbered Swiss.

1390: Duke Leopold is assassinated in Glarus by rebellious Swiss. The Count of Toggenburg retaliates for the murder and the rebellion by followed by razing Glarus in a punitive expedition.

1392: Attempted rebellion during the regency of Viridis Visconti, wife of Duke Leopold, crushed by Toggenburg and other Habsburg loyalists from the Rhine territories. The city council of Zürich is hanged and the city's administration given over to the local Bishop.

1400: Deposition of Wenceslas of Bohemia as Holy Roman Emperor in favor of Elector Rupert of the Palatinate. His efforts to resolve the Schism are pre-empted by the Council of Paris called by King Charles VI of France.

1404: Last serious rising of the Old Swiss Confederacy crushed at Sankt Gallen.

1410: Election of King Sigismund of Hungary as Holy Roman Emperor. As the younger brother of Wenceslas, he also exercises control over Bohemia.

1412: Jan Hus declared an outlaw in Bohemia. His followers riot in Prague, provoking a general repression of the sect.

1414: Emperor Sigismund threatens to launch an Imperial expedition across the Alps against the Roman advance into northern Italy. The conquest of Milan and other Imperial fiefs remains a constant souce of friction between the Empire and Rome.

1415: Jan Hus murdered by knights loyal to Emperor Sigismund on his way back to Bohemia from the Council of Strasbourg.

1418: Renewed outbreak of war in Italy provokes Sigismund to gather an army to intervene. Before he can finish preparations the illness of his brother Wenceslas forces him to return to Bohemia in preparation for his inheritance.

1419: First Defenestration of Prague. Hussites in the capital riot after the death of King Wenceslas, and refuse to accept Sigismund as King. The army gathered for the Italian intervention is instead used to restore order to the capital. Many of the leading Hussites escape from the city in the company of Jan Zizka and head for Mount Tabor. The vigorous support granted to Sigismund by Pope Benedict XIII leads Hungary into the Avignon camp, and the Holy Roman Empire follows suit with Sigismund's example.

1420: Archduke Albert of Austria disperses the Council of Strasbourg for his father-in-law, the Emperor Sigismund. On the way back he takes Berne in a surprise assault on the city, ending the Swiss Confederation.

1421: Austria is awarded the Franconian territories of the Luxembourg family by Emperor Sigismund, in preference to Bavaria.

1422: Hussites manage to repulse a large Imperial army sent to crush the Taborite settlement. In a brilliant campaign, Zizka manages to turn the tables on Sigismund and liberates Prague. The Imperial army is driven out of the heartland of Bohemia, into the German-settled border and areas and the still-Catholic province of Moravia.

1424: A year-long campaign culminates in the conquest of Moravia by the Hussites operating out of Prague. Zizka makes preparations for an invasion of Hungary to compel King Sigismund to recognize the independence of Bohemia.

1425-1430: Hussite invasions of Hungary, Austria, and the Holy Roman Empire become increasingly destructive.

1431: While Zizka is engaged away on the Hungarian frontier the split between radical Taborite and moderate Utraquists worsens, leading to the expulsion of the Taborite party from Prague. With little sign of an end to the war in sight, the Utraquists invite King Wladyslaw of Poland to become King of Hungary. The Jagellion defers, but is willing to allow his kinsman Sigismund Korybut to go to Prague as a candidate. The Utraquists find him acceptable and hurry through a coronation, against the radical protests of the Taborites.

1432: A Taborite army under Prokop the Great engages the forces of Sigismund Korybut outside Jistebnice and routes the moderate Utraquists. Korybut is killed on the field and the Taborite radicals carry out a purge of Utraquist nobles in Prague. On the return of Zizka from Hungary the executions are halted but the damage to Hussite unity is done.

1433: Geneva is placed under Imperial protection by Emperor Albert in the wake of the annexation of Savoy by Rome. The Romans maintain the claims of the Count of Savoy to the city but refrain from pressing the issue.

1434: Polish invasion of Bohemia to punish the Hussites for the death of Sigismund Korybut. The Poles are beaten off by Zizka, who expands the war into Silesia against Emperor Sigismund's loyalists in the German majority areas of Bohemia.

1436: Death of Jan Zizka. Leadership of the Taborites defaults to Prokop the Great, who allows a greater degree of radicalism to flourish. The consolidation of control over German border areas is markedly more bloody in the aftermath of Zizka's death.

1437: Death of Emperor Sigismund and effective end of Hungarian and Imperial attempts to reclaim Bohemia. Archduke Albert of Austria is elected as Sigismund's successor in Hungary and to the title of Holy Roman Emperor.

1438: Polish Hussites assist the armies of Prokop the Great in the isolation of Krakow. Faced with threats to the east the Poles temporarily abandon their capital and move the seat of government to Warsaw. The death of Wladyslaw Jagellion shortly afterward, and clashes with the Teutonic Knights that follow, leave the Hussites in control of Krakow.

1439: With the end of external attempts to conquer Bohemia the Hussites turn on each other. Prokop is assassinated in Prague alongside many Taborite leaders in a massacre on St. Valentine's Day. Civil War between the Taborites and Utraquists breaks out shortly afterward.

1440: Death of Emperor Albert II of plague while on a tour of the fortifications of northern Hungary. His young son Ladislaus is proclaimed King of Hungary but rejected by the Hungarian Diet due to his age. Albert's kinsman Frederick, Duke of Inner Austria, is elected Holy Roman Emperor as Frederick III and takes up guardianship of the interests of Ladislaus. The Hungarian magnates take their time selecting a new monarch, and vest the regency with Janos Hunyadi.

1446: Conclusion of the Hussite Civil War with the capture of the Tabor and destruction of the settlment by Utraquists. While still isolated, the moderate Hussites attempt to draw support from foreign countries by offering the Crown of Bohemia to various foreign princes but find no takers. George of Podebrady is elected as a native Czech ruler and leader of the Utraquist party.

1451: Efforts by Podebrady to negotiate the return of the Hussites to Papal authority flounder almost immediately thanks to the arrogant attitudes of the Roman delegation. The Utraquists are not ready to acknowledge Papal supremacy either, keeping in mind the civil war with radical elements only a few years ago. Pope John XXIII follows up the failed delegation with a Bull condemning the Hussites as heretics and demands that all Catholics reject their errors.

1454: With support from John XXIII, King Wladyslaw III of Poland mobilizes his kingdom for a crusade against the Hussites. The efforts of George of Podebrady to avert the war, including the proposal of a union of sovereigns to force reform and unity on the Church, and the return of Krakow to Polish hands, failed. The large Polish army swiftly overran Silesia, where the Catholic population welcomed the Poles as liberators from Hussite oppression.

1455: Battle of Kolin, where the Polish and Lithuanian cavalry are routed by Hussites under George of Podebrady. The war-wagons of the Czechs hold off repeated attempts by Polish hussars to charge uphill. King Wladyslaw is killed by a handgonner while leading the fatal thirteenth charge. The Polish army withdraws from the field in order but with its morale broken.

1456: Death of Ladislaus of Hungary and of Janos Hunyadi. Perhaps feeling relieved to be rid of the remnant claimant, the Diet selects Hunyadi's son Matthias as King of Hungary. Frederick III returns the regalia taken from Budapest by the supporters of Ladislaus

1457: Peace of Breslau between Bohemia and Poland ends Wladyslaw's Crusade on status quo ante-bellum terms. No one is convinced that the Poles have given up their intent to reclaim Krakow but there are more pressing matters for the Jagellions in the east.

1464: At a meeting in Strasbourg Emperor Frederick III offers the crown of Burgundy to Philip the Good. When the Roman pontiff proves reluctant to endorse the establishment of a new Kingdom, Philip shifts his recognition to Martin V. To the general fury of the English the holdings of Burgundy in Flanders and Artois are annexed as part of the Empire, which has never quite recognized their claim to the rest of France. Internal difficulties, the aging of Henry V, and the backing of the Imperial electors for Burgundy's accession to the Empire combine to prevent war but the situation remains tense for some time.

1477: Death of Charles the Bold, King of Burgundy, outside Nancy. His territories within the Empire, the Kingdom of Burgundy, transfer to his heiress Marie. Among her many suitors Marie choses Maximilian of Austria as a vigorous young prince able to bring the resources of the Empire to bear against any English attempts to interfere with the succession. Burgundy proper, within the bounds of France, defaults to the Count of Nevers due to Salic Law.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Here is the map with the full Order of St. John added back in, but it's important to remember that Cyprus is just under the protection of the Order; only Rhodes, Morea, and Corfu are actually governed by it:

[The Duchess of Zeon]

List of Countries, Organised by Religion at game start:

Supporters of the Spanish Pope:
Kingdom of Castille and Aragon
Kingdom of Portugal and Algarve
Kingdom of Occitania
The Holy Roman Empire
The Kalmar Union
Kingdom of Hungary
Kingdom of Scotland
Republic of Ragusa
The Teutonic Order.

Supporters of the Roman Pope:
Union of England and France
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Kingdom of Sweden
Duchy of Burgundy
Duchy of Brittany
Republic of Rome
Knights of St. John and protectorate of Cyprus.
Republic of Venice
Republic of Florence
Kingdom of Albania
Roman Protectorate of Constantinople.

Hussite Christians:
Kingdom of Bohemia, Silesia and Galicia.

Orthodox Christians in communion with the Eucemenical Patriarch in Exile in Kiev:
The Republic of Great Novgorod.
The Khanate of Kiev and the Golden Horde
The Empire of Trabzond and Georgia
The Empire of Greater Serbia
The Principality of Moldavia
The Principality of Wallachia
The Principality of Karvuna
The Principality of Ryazan
The Nobles Republic of Pinsk

Orthodox Christians in communion with the Self-Proclaimed Patriarch of Moscow:
The Grand Principality of Vladimir-Suizdal (Capital of Moscow).
The Principality of Tver
The Principality of Tula

Sunni Muslims:
Emirate of Oran
Emirate of Algiers
Emirate of Constantine (Kabylia).
Wattasid Dynasty of northern Morocco
Warring Tribes of southern Morocco
Ottoman Sultanate
White Sheep Turcomen
Mameluke Sultanate
Confederacy of the Pirate Beyliks of Libya
Kingdom of Granada as a tributary and protectorate of Castille-Aragon?

[Comrade Tortoise]

Uh... Dutchess. Florence and Venice are supporters of the Roman Pope, as of this moment. In the past, they supported the Spanish Anti-Pope (during the war with rome earlier in the century), but have since been brought into line.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I switched them to the Roman column and Ragusa to the Spanish column, since Ragusa will do whatever the Venetians aren't doing.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Heh. That makes sense.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Updated the rules. I noticed an error in the way increasing one's scores is calculated. Apparently, it auto-completed in my word file.

It should be, and now is: Connectivity and Economy can be increased by spending a number of Florins equal to (Current rating)x(1+1/2 economy or connectivity[whichever is not the one being raised])x1000 .

I have also included a more general note on training times.

[Comrade Tortoise]

further note, patronage of the arts and technology require the same calculation, simply substituting art or technology in the relevant places.

[Charon]

*looks at map* The White Sheep Turks? Fuck...

*thinks*

Actually, Duchess. I have a question.

How well would it go over if I had my hands on a Patriarch as well?

[Comrade Tortoise]

I have a number of questions regarding the religious breakdown:

Duchess, did you consult with the other PC nations with regard to their religious leanings? If you did not, you MUST. Arbitrarily declaring the religious affiliation of say, Occitania without consulting frigid would not be OK.

In fact: All players, do in this thread declare your current papal allegiance and the strength thereof. If you are ecumenically neutral, do so state.

I know some players have issues with the history, which is of course entirely subject to the players of the nations concerned. I am no historian, and when, for example the history of Italy was dealt with, I know only the broad strokes and not the personages and timelines involved. Said history for your nations is not at all for cavalier or myself to decide. Rather, it is YOUR nation. Do with it what you would. If the proposed history needs to be scrapped, that is your prerogative.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Status of the Non-Church History: Under review, I will not specify by whom. While this player thinks the history is Awesome, it presents historical and political problems for their state, internal to their state. As a result, it will take this person some time to go through and decide what they do and do not approve of. The Hammer of God will come down on players who utilize said history against another player until it is approved of.

Status of Church History: Fully Acceptable

Status of Current Religious Leanings: Pending player approval by all states, and this includes GM approval of NPC states.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

*looks at map* The White Sheep Turks? Fuck...

*thinks*

Actually, Duchess. I have a question.

How well would it go over if I had my hands on a Patriarch as well?

Uh, I think there are a lot of rival patriarchs, and the Ottomans getting one elected would however infuriate the Khanate, which otherwise is more angry at the Romans for taking Constantinople and forcing union with the Latin church. They'd honestly prefer Muslim rulers who left the Orthodox Church alone. They're also not the say all and end-all of Orthodox politics and might be easily enough conciliated, however.

The White Sheep Turks are a pretty loose tribal confederation, though including the Karamanid Sultanate in Angora.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I have a number of questions regarding the religious breakdown:

Duchess, did you consult with the other PC nations with regard to their religious leanings? If you did not, you MUST. Arbitrarily declaring the religious affiliation of say, Occitania without consulting frigid would not be OK.

In fact: All players, do in this thread declare your current papal allegiance and the strength thereof. If you are ecumenically neutral, do so state.

I know some players have issues with the history, which is of course entirely subject to the players of the nations concerned. I am no historian, and when, for example the history of Italy was dealt with, I know only the broad strokes and not the personages and timelines involved. Said history for your nations is not at all for cavalier or myself to decide. Rather, it is YOUR nation. Do with it what you would. If the proposed history needs to be scrapped, that is your prerogative.

Well, history should be collaborative between the players and judged on census. I'll edit the papal allegiance lists if anyone wants it differently for their PC, obviously, but please think about the relative political alignments and interests of your nation in doing so. For example England-France is a bulwark of the Roman Papacy in the actual timeline of the western schism; a rebel state against them would not find much Papal support in Rome, thus the very provisional listing of Occitan with the Spanish Papacy.

[Charon]

Uh, I think there are a lot of rival patriarchs, and the Ottomans getting one elected would however infuriate the Khanate, which otherwise is more angry at the Romans for taking Constantinople and forcing union with the Latin church. They'd honestly prefer Muslim rulers who left the Orthodox Church alone. They're also not the say all and end-all of Orthodox politics and might be easily enough conciliated, however.

The White Sheep Turks are a pretty loose tribal confederation, though including the Karamanid Sultanate in Angora.

But Gennadios needed to go somewhere after the Union. :)

I'm pretty certain the Khanate isn't happy with the idea of the Ottomans taking Thrace for many reasons besides religious ones. That being said, I feel that Constantinople's Patriarch will at least still have a few supporters. Union isn't good. But there's still a Patriarch doing service in St. Sophia.