Are chocobos realistic?

[Destructionator XV]

Chocobos in the Final Fantasy games are large, flightless birds that serve basically the same purpose in the games as horses used to in real life: people ride them (even armored into battle - that's got to be several hundred pounds on its back), they tow loads such as carriages, etc.

Quickly looking up some numbers for ostriches and horses on the internet, it looks like an ostrich is far too small to do any of the work that horses normally do, and since they are the biggest bird I know of (though googling tells me there is an extinct bird that weighed in at about 1,000 pounds, but little information beyond that is jumping out at me), my question is still unanswered.

So I am wondering three things: are work-birds like chocobos realistic? If so, under what conditions would they be likely to evolve (at least to reach a point where humans would take interest and selectively breed them)? And lastly, would they probably look at all like what we see in the games?

[LadyTevar]

South America had so-called "terrorbirds", who were some of the larger predators of the continent at the time. New Zealand had that Maori Birds, also larger than ostrischs. The maori died out shortly after human arrival.

[Shark Bait]

Chocobos would need to have their bones re solidify their legs would probably need to be much thicker than an ostrich. In terms of ecological niche they would probably fairly predatory like the terror-bird, they would need powerful beaks and maybe Raptor like claws. Would also be interesting if they were somewhat social creatures forming small packs to bring down antelope like prey or something. Consider that dinosaurs evolved into birds why the hell not have large powerful flightless birds?

[LadyTevar]

For those who've not seen a Chocobo, here is the wiki to explain more.

As you can see from the pic below, a Chocobo is a large bird (average human can't see over their back), with strong taloned legs and a sharp, heavy parrot-like beak. In the 'wild' (aka as a random monster), Chocobo are often running with other creatures or with other Chocobos, so they do like to run in flocks/packs.

Thus, Sharkbait's on the money so far.

[Shark Bait]

For those who've not seen a Chocobo, here is the wiki to explain more.

As you can see from the pic below, a Chocobo is a large bird (average human can't see over their back), with strong taloned legs and a sharp, heavy parrot-like beak. In the 'wild' (aka as a random monster), Chocobo are often running with other creatures or with other Chocobos, so they do like to run in flocks/packs.

Thus, Sharkbait's on the money so far.

woot

although, i would think their wings might be even more vestigial more so than even the ostrich, basically just little feather covered nubs with the majority of muscle mass going into the legs and such.

[frigidmagi]

Maybe just large feathers attached there for courtship displays? Chocobos do come in different colors after all.

[Shark Bait]

i dunno from what i can see the there is still a decent sized bit of wing behind that besides mate attracting displays could be in tail feathers as well

[Comrade Tortoise]

i dunno from what i can see the there is still a decent sized bit of wing behind that besides mate attracting displays could be in tail feathers as well

Could be, but there is no necessity that they would. Evolution is just as likely to co-opt wings as tails

[Mayabird]

Tev: you're thinking of moas. There were also the much larger elephant birds on another one of those isolated islands. Both of them were herbivores, which matches up with chocobos, since chocobos eat greens and all. The thick bill is probably for crushing the plant matter they consume - they're probably not all that picky in the wild.

It could also be that chocobos have been selectively bred for quite a while, and the ones seen in the wild are more feral than actually wild, like mustangs and longhorns. There are chocobo breeders (and chocobo breeding) in many of the games, after all. The original stock may not have been as great for work for whatever reason (not strong enough to carry a humanoid, smaller, whatever) but a lot of breeding made the chocobos of the games.

[LadyTevar]

Chocobos also have an odd coloration to their feathers, which also corrolates with various abilities within the subspecies, which seem to have evolved to fill certain ecological niches.

Yellow Chocobos are the most common chocobos, found in nearly every forest, plains, or swamp terrain. They are strong runners, fast sprinters, and can outrun any creature that might try to entrap it. (Game Mechanics: No random encounters while riding a chocobo, travel anywhere on a continent that isn't blocked by water or mountains.) Wild chocobos can be caught and ridden, although they will run away once dismounted. Trained chocobos will also return to their stables once they are dismounted, much like a homing pigeon. Training can improve a yellow chocobo's speed and stamina, allowing them to be used as beasts of burden or as war-mounts and cavalry units.

Blue Chocobos are found on seashores or lakes, and seem to have no fear of water. They often swim (run?) across shallow waters between islands, and thus can be used to go to places a boat can't dock. They have no problems running on flat land, but have trouble with mountains. (FF3, FF7, FF9. Game Mechanic: Blue chocobos can cross light blue (shallow) areas of ocean, as well as anywhere a yellow chocobo can run. The animation is a running bird, so its unclean if they're swimming or running/skimming over the water.)

Green Chocobos are found in mountainous regions, and are specialized in climbing even the tallest rocky peaks. This allows them to go where even the flying Black chocobos cannot, while still able to cross flat lands in between mountain ranges. (FF7, FF9. Game Mechanic: Can't cross shallow waters, but can go nearly anywhere else.)

Black chocobos are faster than the average yellow chocobo, with a greatly higher speed and stamina if raised properly. Wild Black Chocobos often retain the ability to fly, some for long distances in a possible migration path, although they prefer to fly low and land in forests. (FF4 Game Mechanic, Black Chocobo cannot fly over mountain ranges/ridges, will only land in forested squares. However, they will stay in that forest until returned to their home.) Unfortunately, it takes some work to breed a Black Chocobo, but they are prized for their ability to cross any terrain a Green or Yellow Chocobo can cross. (FF7, FF9)

Gold Chocobos are extremely rare and usually the result of careful breeding. These rare birds are the pinnacle of Chocobo evolution; able to outrun a Black, cross mountains like a Green, swim(?) shallows like a Blue, and fly distances that normally take an airship to cross. Due to this, they are used to travel to remote locations where airships are unable to land (FF7, the only way you get the 'Knights of the Realm' summons: breed a Gold to take you to the isle.). Prized by Chocobo racers, a Gold Chocobo is almost a guaranteed winner in any race due to its high stamina and speed.

[LadyTevar]

Maya, you posted as I was prepping my comment on the colorations

I am not sure that Chocobos are totally herbivores. I think they may be omnivorous, since some chocobos will attack humans and other species on sight. However, this may simply be territorial defense.

The 'greens' Maya mentioned are commonly called Gysahl Greens, and seems to attract chocobos like catnip does cats. The Greens seem to be a family of large-leaved herbs with a variety of effects upon Chocobos. The common Gysahl will calm a wild chocobo long enough to be captured and ridden, and is often given to tame chocobos as a treat.
The fruit of the Gysahl, when fed to a chocobo, immediately sends the chocobo into a sudden burst of speed beyond its normal abilities. This 'rush' will cause the eye of the chocobo to glitter or 'glow' oddly when under the effect of the Gysahl berry, which wears off as the rush of speed wears off. This does not seem to harm the chocobo, as it resumes a normal running pace without any sign of fatigue. It is strongly cautioned not to feed a chocobo more than three berries during your ride, however, just to be safe. (FF12. Game Mechanic, when riding a hired chocobo there is a time limit, and three Gysahl berries that can be used to sprint across the landscape.)

The Gysahl Green has been cultivated by humans for some time, and masters of horticulture have bred varieties that are used to improve a racing chocobo's natural abilities when added to their normal feed. (FF7. Game Mechanic. When breeding chocobo for the races, the more expensive greens will raise the chocobos speed or stamina stat permenantly. The most expensive greens will raise both to get the best out of your chocobo.)

[LadyTevar]

Gah... Forgot a coloration.

Brown Chocobo are wild, aggressive Chocobos, never captured or bred by humans. The aggressive nature of the Brown chocobo makes it difficult to study them in the wild. Their natural range covers the same territory as the Yellow Chocobo, although the species do not seem to intermingle. However, no attacks on Yellows by Browns have ever been recorded, and riders on Yellow Chocobos may pass through a Brown's territory without harm. Dismounting, however, triggers an aggressive and possibly deadly attack. In fact, Brown chocobo will attack humans and other creatures on sight; mostly to protect their territory but it is believed they eat their kills, thus making them omnivores.

Chocobo Breeders have been unable to breed a Brown chocobo, and it is theorized that the visible differences between the Brown and the Yellow (larger beak, sleeker body) may indicate it is its own species of Chocobo, and not a subspecies like the Blue or Green. Whither the Brown has its own subspecies is yet to be proven.

(Game Mechanics: FF12, the Brown Chocobo is a random monster encounter only. It is never neutral, but always fully aggressive and willing to give chase, often training with other Browns to gang up on you. They start appearing in the middle chapters of the story, and are threats equal to the Tyranosaur in the first desert.)

[frigidmagi]

I think we can disregard some of the subspecis there as not possible and serving only as a game mechanic. Browns may be the original stock with yellow being the domesticated end product (read farm cows versus original wild version, or dogs vs wolves).

[Destructionator XV]

I think we can disregard some of the subspecis there as not possible and serving only as a game mechanic. Browns may be the original stock with yellow being the domesticated end product (read farm cows versus original wild version, or dogs vs wolves).

Yes, I agree. The black chocobo is especially unlikely - I can't imagine lifting > 200 pounds + its own weight (probably at least 300 more) by an animal flapping its wings would work out.

[frigidmagi]

I got a way but it involves some radical surgery and a small jet engine... I wouldn't recommend actually sitting on it afterwards though.

[Mayabird]

More comments and replies to Tevar (damn, am I a nerd):

I remember FF7 mentioning more types of greens than just Gysahl Greens, although those show up in many of the other games. I also seem to remember FFXI (which I never played, but my brother did for a while) having some other types of greens as well. At any rate, since they give the chocobos special effects, I figured it was just something they especially liked, but not something that was a major component of their normal diets.

I haven't played FFXII yet, but my take on the various colors of chocobos is that it's where the in-universe magic kicks in. There's no way by physics that chocobos can fly, especially with someone riding them, but since people can fly by Float spells, they probably have some variation of that. The chocobos in FF Tactics (which included a color you didn't mention - red) were certainly casting spells on their own (powerful ones that usually kicked the crap out of my party).

They're probably territorial. There are a lot of herbivores that are VERY dangerous if you get too close to them or intrude on their territory. More people die every year from the purely plant-eating hippos than from carnivorous lions, after all. I don't see why their attacks should be construed as them being omnivorous.

They wouldn't need that thick, powerful bill if they didn't need to grind tough plant matter and could fill gaps with softer meat instead. The robust australopithecines had huge, powerful jaws to handle their plant diet. Gorillas today also have huge, powerful jaws for the same reason. In comparison, the hominid lines that lead to us which were apparently more omnivorous had much smaller jaws. Big beaks serve the same purpose as big jaws. I'd expect them to have smaller bills or even sharp ones if they ate a lot of meat.

[frigidmagi]

They wouldn't need that thick, powerful bill if they didn't need to grind tough plant matter and could fill gaps with softer meat instead. The robust australopithecines had huge, powerful jaws to handle their plant diet. Gorillas today also have huge, powerful jaws for the same reason. In comparison, the hominid lines that lead to us which were apparently more omnivorous had much smaller jaws. Big beaks serve the same purpose as big jaws. I'd expect them to have smaller bills or even sharp ones if they ate a lot of meat.

That is a pretty good point. Course with those talons and beak, one has to wonder what the hell preys on the damn birds...

[Mayabird]

They wouldn't need that thick, powerful bill if they didn't need to grind tough plant matter and could fill gaps with softer meat instead. The robust australopithecines had huge, powerful jaws to handle their plant diet. Gorillas today also have huge, powerful jaws for the same reason. In comparison, the hominid lines that lead to us which were apparently more omnivorous had much smaller jaws. Big beaks serve the same purpose as big jaws. I'd expect them to have smaller bills or even sharp ones if they ate a lot of meat.

That is a pretty good point. Course with those talons and beak, one has to wonder what the hell preys on the damn birds...

You ever seen some of the monsters in those games? You step foot outside a town and thirty foot tall secondhand-smoke-of-doom-making plant monsters attack you.

[LadyTevar]

That is a pretty good point. Course with those talons and beak, one has to wonder what the hell preys on the damn birds...

Bombs

Flan

Garuda

Mantis

Couerl

Wolves/Worg

Ochu/Marlboro

And don't forget Dragons

Other nasty things that could prey on Chocobos can be found in this Bestiary

[Destructionator XV]

The Malboro is especially ferocious. My maxed out party from my FF8 master save still fears those bastards, and I often will still flee from them. (this is my party that beat Omega Weapon!) Bad breath = ALL STATUS EFFECTS IN THE GAME! => Game over. If I know I'm entering Malboro territory, I'll so junction ultima to status defense and have a chance, but hitting one by surprise? Run for your life.

Anywho, it really would be an interesting tangent to discuss what life might be like for both people and animals with the presence of magic and monsters in the world.

However, the reason I ask in this thread is I am slowly working on more alien like life in my reasonably hard sci-fi universe (with some minor fantasy tossed in, but I often ignore the fantasy aspects when talking about the hard science stuff). Single celled organisms over and over again get old to write about, but giant birds, oh that sounds cool! Lifting the chocobo, at least the yellow ones, right off the FF world and dropping them in mine would be very appealing to me, but at the same time, I try not to butcher science, and biology should be no exception.

But, like I said, I do find talking about them right in the FF games to be a very interesting discussion too, so please, carry on.

To expand some points raised:
They do seem to be somewhat social. In the earlier games (I haven't actually played 10 and beyond), the chocobo forests had several of them living together in there. Chocobos also tend to be rather intelligent in most the games (I wouldn't quite say dog level from what I am remembering right now (FF Tactics showing all monsters talking to your mediators is an exception), but IIRC the chocobo in 5 is seen doing some pretty smart things on his own), which probably comes with either them being social or was bred into them.

Speaking of breeding, it could certainly explain a lot of things about them, but surely early man wouldn't breed them unless they already had a good bit to offer?

[LadyTevar]

Well... when your equines are something like this:
Mesmenir andMallicant, you kinda don't wanna break them to ride, ya know what I mean? Plus, they're both definitely carnivores, unlike the Chocobo.

[Mayabird]

Elephants are highly social and quite intelligent, while also being big, dangerous herbivores. Also, birds have smaller neurons than mammals (more efficient, apparently, since they can handle the same tasks) and can pack neurons more densely in their brains. No reason why chocobos can't be smart. Ostriches may not be too brainy, but they don't have to deal with freaking Marlboros. I HATE those things. I usually couldn't even run away from them in most games before they cast Bad Breath on me.

Anyway, I see no reason why someone with enough money, time, and genetic engineering expertise couldn't cook up a ride-able chocobo.

[frigidmagi]

Bombs

Bombs don't eat they explode.

[LadyTevar]

Bombs

Bombs don't eat they explode.

Bombs explode when they're dying. They attack with tackle and bite attacks.